Got my shopbot... now what

[brock_poling]

I could use a little advice. I recently bought a used PRT Alpha 48 and I am about ready to take the shopbot adventure.

But I haven't got the first clue about CNC, CAD etc. (Yeah, I know I have a steep learning curve in front of me, I am up for it.) I know my way around a shop, tools, I have a degree in computer science but haven't actually written code in years. I need to get my hands on a CNC/Shopbot for dummies book that will take me to the very very very beginning and help me come up to speed.

I would appreciate any advice about where to get started and how I can begin to educate myself. I am quite confident I can learn this, I just need to go to the beginning and start there.

Thanks!

Brock.

[ken_rychlik]

Those are some nice looking guitars Brock. The shopbot fiies are very easy to read. You don't have to know how to write code. The software will do it for you. It's nice to be able to modify a line here and there though.

What software is it comming with? Reading the old post in that section will help you a lot.

I would think that those old lessons will come back to you when you need them.

Have fun.

Kenenth

[myxpykalix]

Listen Brock this stuff ain't nearly as hard as you think it might be. I figured it out within the first week having never done any cnc before. I STILL ask lots of questions 3 yrs later though.

First start out by telling us what programs you are working with and what you want to do?

There are 2d and 3d sample files in some of the supplied programs or floating around like thru "project wizard" .
You won't be required to write lines of code to create parts although you can edit part files.

Start by answering that question and we can go from there.

[rcnewcomb]

Software Tutorials:
Vectric Software has excellent video tutorials and documentation to go with their software. If you don't already have their software you can download trial versions at the Vectric.com web site.

How to hold the material while cutting is probably one of your first challenges. There is no one perfect solution. Read all you can on the forum and the shopbottools.com web and shopbotwiki.com sites.

You may wish to contact Tim McKnight who also got a ShopBot and is likewise building guitars in Ohio.

Rather than having to learn 3D CAD from scratch you can get scans done of some components you have already made, such as the guitar neck or bridge. I know Brady Watson at www.ibild.com (http://www.ibild.com) does laser scanning.

[brock_poling]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Jack. I am sure I can get this, but I am truly at the beginning. I am not in a huge hurry though. I want to take my time and learn this.

Tim and I know each other well. I am probably going to run up to his place to see what he is up to.

Regarding programs and early applications, I am probably going to focus almost entirely on 2d/2.5d applications at first. Cutting parts for jigs etc from MDF or Baltic Birch Ply. Simple things like molds and master templates to help shape parts on guided sanders or shapers.

From there I wouldn't mind trimming actual guitar parts. Cutting out tops, backs, routing the pockets for rosettes, profiling sides etc.

Again, all walk before you run kind of stuff. My first 3D foreay will probably be cutting and slotting fingerboards

My CAD skills are limited. I can draw accurate 2d rosettes (essentially concentric circles) but anything more complex is a struggle - and forget about anything as complex as the shape of a guitar. I have managed to draw an unslotted fingerboard as well (2D).

Part of my struggle with the CAD is going to be reverse engineering some of my existing shapes into CAD. The laser scanning sounds like that might be a good place to start.

I have TurboCad and will soon have an older version of Solid Works, plus the programs that came with the bot.

[ken_rychlik]

Brock, you can design some parts in turbocad and use them with the bot later. I just save as a dxf format from turbo and imoport into the toolpathing programs.

So start desinging in turbo cad and be ready with some files.

The vectric programs are VERY user friendly. After running turbo cad the vectric stuff would be easy as pie.

Kenneth

[bcondon]

Welcome aboard Brock,

Here is how I started out:

I went to class for a couple of days BUT the day before the class I got to the hotel room early and all I had to do was play with tutorials, play with software or watch TV... I forgot the TV and just played around which gave me more confidence.

Here is an assignment for you:

1. Take a picture of one of the guitars square on (digital) and bring that picture (.jpg) into your computer.

2. Look at the tutorials and find out how to bring in a bitmap picture

3. Bring the bitmap and turn into vectors.

4. Smooth the vectors (depending on what version) so it looks nice...

5. Measure the real guitar body and scale your vectors (x/y in ratio and independent)

6. Look at the tutorials on how to make toolpaths... Cut an outside and any inside using profile, pocket with a 1/4" straight cut.... If it is not tight enough, start with 1/4 and then run a final cut with 1/8"

7. Use the display of toolpaths

8. Once the machine is set up and running, you can now cut that body and see how you did..


Investing 300 in class + hotel/meals is a good investment plus meeting the folks face to face is just wonderful!

class has begun!

[brock_poling]

Yeah, I am planning on calling the SB folks and getting myself into that intro training class.

Thanks for the assignment. I will give it a shot and post my progress.

[curtiss]

Not sure who might be close to you with a Shopbot but make a visit or perhaps they can see your shop and fine tune a few things, ...which would require your to serve refreshments.

Watch the Vectric video tutorials. Get your C3 and C2 commands working properly.

Run a few files "up in the air" with no bit to
make sure things are working properly. Watch the Z output on the screen to make sure it has no extream dips for some reason.

The proper decimal point is most important on the z !!!


When I title a toolpath, I usually give the maximum depth at the end, such as Text .100 or
Final Cut Out .760 yada yada

If your machine is set up properly, the learning curve is not too steep. The bits, toolpaths & cutting speeds are a trick at first, but we all do that wrong for a year or two, or three ....

cdj

[angus_hines]

Welcome Brock, well you have found the SHopBot for dummies here in this forum of vast knowledge. It amazes me how often I come here read something and the lightbulb comes on so to speak.

Secondly I recommend like Bob C. that you make the pilgrimage to Durham and take the two day class. It will greatly reduce the learning curve.

[donchapman]

Welcome and ditto to all the good advice above.

With no prior experience in CNC, I bought my ShopBot 9 years ago, have used it mainly for signmaking, but have also made parts for stringed instruments and worked with artists, engineers, and architects on their projects.

While ShopBots have improved greatly over the years, the real revolution has been in the quality and user-friendliness of available software, and the folks at Vectric deserve most of the credit for that.

My advice to you is to buy VCarve Pro or Aspire from Vectric or the ShopBot versions from ShopBot, watch a few of the free Vectric turtorials, and just start doing stuff with your ShopBot.

Pay attention to safety but don't be intimidated by any aspect of the machine or the software, because it it very easy to learn and you will learn quickly by just jumping right into cutting projects.

When a problem or question arises check the archives on this forum and you'll usually find the solution. If not, then post a question and you'll immediately get more advice than you need, as I'm sure you've already gathered from this posting.

Finally, attend ShopBot gatherings wherever and whenever you can. You'll never find a more sharing community of bright, creative individuals.

All this is possible because ShopBot is a great company that has grown but never forgotten its roots and still cares about serving its customers long after the sale.

[rcnewcomb]

Give some thought to how you will use the Shopbot. I recall hearing a talk by Kevin Ryan on CNC & guitar building. He started out using the CNC to help him make jigs for building. Eventually he began to use the system to work directly on the instruments as his comfort grew.

Check out some of the links on Jim Olson's site regarding CNC. He uses a Fadal, but it is still a 3 axis overhead router. ->Link (http://www.olsonguitars.com/shop_fadal.html). He shows some of the vacuum jigs he uses for material hold down. He also shows some of the jigs he has made.

[brock_poling]

Thanks for the tips.

I am very familiar with Jim and Kevin and their work. I suspect my path will be similar to theirs. First jigs, then parts.

I build about 12 guitars per year max, so the SB is really to help me improve efficiency, repeatability, jigs, etc.

As mundane as it sounds having the bot simply hog material off back and sides before I take them to the thickness sander will save HOURS of time.

(Being a guitar builder is like being a professional sander. ;-))

[brock_poling]

Oh yeah, the other big thing initially is inlay.

[robredick]

Hey Brock.. Welcome to the addiction.

I was a bassist before a carpenter. If I can figure it out ,anyone can. After all... If a bass player and a drummer fall off of a cliff, Who lands first????? Who the hell cares?

I have been using the Artcam for a few years now. This week I downloaded the trial of Aspire. Aspire is the way to go. If for nothing else, for the videos. They take the pain away. The price is also unmatchable. If you know Illustrator or Sketchup you are good to go too. You can draw your heart out in those and "Import" everything.

I picked up our second bot from some amazing fellas in Kansas today. They showed me things that made my head spin. I tinker in 3d but only really cut flat things with holes in them. Once again I have seen that the possibilities are endless.

Don't be embarrassed or ashamed to ask questions. These folks have solved every problem that you will have and are always happy to save you.

Happy Cutting.

[john_how]

Hi Brock, welcome aboard and congrats on your purchase. It is a handy tool to have in the luthier shop as we are quite fond of our jigs and such and this thing is just like a big universal jig. You are right in starting on 2d stuff to get yourself familiar with he machine. Partworks makes that it pretty easy so I would get a copy if you didn't get it with your machine.
The toughest thing here is just holding the little parts on the table but you'll figure out what works for you.
Anything I can do to help, just let me know.
Have fun!!!

Hey were you able to get it into your basement?

[brock_poling]

Thanks John.

Yeah, it went down easy enough in pieces. It is roughly put back together but needs a careful set up.