100kGarages update

[bill.young]

Hi guys,

There have been a couple of questions about 100kGarages in several threads recently that I wanted to comment on but didn't want to muddy those threads too much, so I've started a new thread.

When we first started thinking about 100kGarages, we figured that the way to sustainably generate business for Fabbers was to start by signing up Fabbers to fill in the map, rather than trying to interest Makers when there wasn't anyone to actually do the cutting....that Makers looking at an empty map was the quickest way to discourage them from coming back as 100kGarages grew. We also knew that it was equally important to have lots of educational info available for Makers, so that they would understand the process better and make the process smoother for both themselves and the Fabber they're working with.

So the first push was to sign up Fabbers and start creating content, and we're happy with the start we've made. We have close to 150 Fabbers signed up so far and, although we still have a way to go to make sure that Michael S. (and all Fabbers) get files that are "Fabber ready", we're making headway with our Maker School section. We knew from the start that the downside of building up the list of Fabbers first was that there probably wouldn't be a lot of jobs to start out, but now that the Fabbers Map has started to fill in we're working on drawing Makers and generally growing and making things easier for everyone.

The Fabber map and JobBoard will always be free to Fabbers and Makers and we'll continue to build these free services. There are lots of other things we've got in the works to go along with them..here are some:

*) Introducing EasyCut. We'll be bringing EasyCut online over the next couple of months to enable cutting jobs using templates, to make it easier for Makers. This will be a managed program that will completely handle the business transaction, and will be opt-in for Fabbers. The Ponoko guys are hard at work on EasyCut and we hope to start testing in the next couple of weeks...we're awfully excited about the prospects of simplifying CNC routing the way that Ponoko has done with laser cutting.

*) Collaborating with Vectric on something that will give Makers that want to be more involved in the fabrication process the ability to test a design's "cutability" before sending it to a Fabber. As soon as Brian, Tony, and Mark recuperate from all their recent updates we'll be posting more info.

*) Begin adding other types of digital tools. We've always planned on adding all types of digital tools as soon as we thought we had a handle on how the process would work, and we're starting to figure out how that might work while still keeping the credibility needed for Makers. It will also require creating enough educational materials that Makers will be able to decide when they'd want to use a CNC router, a laser cutter, or maybe a 3d printer, and what the differences are in the process for each. Once EasyCut is online we'll begin the process of adding more tools, but will post info on how we see the process working before too long so that you can see what we have in mind.

*) Adding more projects to make, and connecting Makers with creative Designers. We've started with a sampling of projects at http://projects.100kgarages.com , with more available as time goes on. Makers (or Fabbers) will be able to download and cut project files from there, but we're imagining it more as a showcase of a Designer's work than a store to buy files....a place where Makers can find people to help them with their own projects. These Designers will be familiar with digital fabrication and may be able to work directly with a Fabber, to make the process easier for everyone.

This ties in with Kenneth R's posting the other day:

"My take on this along with the 100k group is that most normal customers want a complete finished product. I believe it to be a very small minority of folks that would want me to cut parts that they can assemble and finish."

There's no reason that jobs that come through the Fabbers Map or JobBoard need to be strictly for cutting...the details of the job are between the Maker and the Fabber. The power of 100kGarages is in the "digital" part of having jobs cut wherever the customer is, but if a Maker wants a "turnkey" job and it's something that the Fabber has the capabilities to do, that's great. We also imagine Designers, like the ones described above, will have products that they want manufactured in their customer's location...these possibly will involve the Fabber doing the job from cutting to finished product, ready for the customer to pick up. As long as both the Maker and Fabber are happy and get what they want, we're happy.

This wasn't meant to be a sales pitch for 100kGarages and I'm really sorry it's so long, but I just wanted to give you an idea of where we see 100kGarages heading and what we're working on to make it happen.

Bill

p.s. Springwise.com, a popular website for entrepreneurs, just picked 100kGarages and "Connecting creative consumers with local fabricators" as one of their top 10 business ideas for 2010! http://springwise.com/businessideas2010/

[ken_rychlik]

Bill, I'm sure my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. lol

I wish you sucess.

Kenneth

[magic]

Q

why are the buildings, on the map, different colors?

[ssflyer]

Bill,

Need any help with the software/DB design and implementation?

[ken_rychlik]

Magic, Look on the bottom under the map. It has to do with the size of machine each place has.

Kenneth

[Gary Campbell]

magic..
if you look at the bottom of the map there is a legend that shows the color of the garage is related to the size of the Fabbers machine.
Gary

[bill.young]

Magic,

It indicates the cutting capacity for that shop's tool...if you scroll to the bottom of the map page you'll see the code and be able to filter the pushpins that you see.

Ron,

Thanks for the offer...I'll be in touch

Bill

[zeykr]

Bill, I'd like to see something in the listing that says where the person making the request is located. Many types of jobs are only going to be practicle if the maker and fabber are close enough that shipping is not required.

You're probably already working on it, but would also be nice if files (dxf, picture) could be attached to the listing rather than having to post someplace else and link.

Off to a good start and interested in seeing it grow.

[curtiss]

Bill,

Could the list of Fabbers be set up to "sort by state" in alphabetical order ?

That would help to find someone in the right area more quickly.

[mikeacg]

Bill,

Thanks for the clarification. I offered to help make the file right but pointed out that I needed more information to know how to fix it. I wanted to be sure he understood what was required. For example, there were pieces that were nested so tightly you couldn't get a bit between them and some parts ran right up to the edge of the sheet. I haven't heard back yet but I want this program to work for all of us so I will work with the customer as required to make the file usable if the opportunity presents itself.

Mike

[myxpykalix]

Not having followed the 100kgarages thing too closely I may not have it all downpat but based on bills explaination above one of his dilema's is that this is a big project and he can't do it all alone.

What it sounds like to me is, for example, with this "EasyCut" there needs to be tutorials for projects explaining from "concept to cutting".
So if it would help, it would seem that betatesters could document their steps in notes and pictures to help show how a process is done.

I would be willing to do some of that. As an example some other members are making tutorials for indexer help which was fantastic and this could only help push this along as I don't think Bill wants to beta test and fill his time making tutorials or webpages.
I would be willing to help to the extent i'm capable of, so just let me know....

[bill.young]

Ken,

The Maker's shipping address is listed when you click on their job posting, but it would be easier to filter jobs if the location was displayed up-front...I'll add it to the wish list. Handling jobBoard files is already on there.

Bill

[bill.young]

Curtis,

Our idea was that if a Maker wanted to select a Fabber by location that they would look on the Fabbers map, but if they wanted to find someone specifically that they would want a list that was alphabetical by name. Maybe that needs a re-thinking?

Bill

[bill.young]

Michael and Jack,

Michael summed it up pretty well:

"I wanted to be sure he understood what was required."

There are a lot of things that we take for granted as Fabbers that are critical to successful cutting, but might not seem so for Makers...leaving enough space between parts for the bit is a good example, or having lines that look like they meet in a corner but don't quite. It requires tutorials and other information with just enough info to help them create good drawing, but not so much that it seems overwhelming. We've got a start at it at http://www.100kgarages.com/Maker_school.html , and any help on that front will be appreciated.

The project we're working on with Vectric will be a tremendous help...stay tuned for info on that soon.

Bill

[courtney2018]

I was impressed to see a good sized article written up in the new Make magazine that just came out the other day. I don't know how popular Make magazine is, I know I love it, but I would imagine that over the next several months there should be some increased interest in 100k garages just from that article.

[spotlight3d]

HI i have a question ?

that relates closely to some questions i was asked recently on the shopbot froum

and that is

How will 100k garages make revenue to keep itself going ?
and to cover running costs ,development costs,
etc etc

what is 100ks primary revenue stream ?

just curious

[myxpykalix]

Bill would be the best person to answer that but from what i've read, i don't think it's initial rollout is geared toward making money as much as it is matching "fabbers" with those that need their services.
http://www.100kgarages.com/our_big_idea.html

[spotlight3d]

Hi Jack

first let me say
i understand what 100k are trying to do and i like it very much.

its just that i was asked some very pointed questions on this subject and i was publically discussed in a very negative manner ,a cigar smoking union boss doppelganger was one phrase i recall.
and i was honest right out the gate about how and where i was going to make revneue. not get rich just get paid for hard work and effort.
while supplying an opt in if you want to free service to fabbers.

i know for a fact with players like ponoko and vectric involved as well as shopbot directly. then there is no way to hide the fact that this operation is geaing toward a for profit business model right out the gate.
i have absolutely no problem with that in fact i think its a worthwhile and just cause
and i think everyone should support 100k fully
but under the circumstances i have asked a pertanent question

and i look forward to an answer

[spotlight3d]

To help enlighten those of you who just pass by this thread and wonder what i am talking about.


with possible revenue streams for websites like fabscity and 100k (if they chooese do do it this way.)
a FAB is almost the same thing as a song or film or ebook or set of plans. that can be downloaded by a maker or fabber to use to create a product or parts of a project. if you look around the internet you will see that musicians sell thier songs through sites like itunes and others and share a royalty with the publishers, another example are 3d models created by designers and modelers and companies like turbosquid and DAZ 3d have been publishing this downloadable content successfully for years.
so its nothing new..and the rules of the business are well established.
CNC projects/FABS are no differant than these other forms of media from a delivery standpoint.
what the gist of the matter is, is how to create standards that everyone can understand and use from the designers to the fabbers to the makers
and sites like 100k and Fabscity are the first attempts at creating those standards and systems
all this needs to be paid for and rightly so.
but the real winners here are you guys because you get to have a community develop that supports your ownership of robotic tools of all shapes and sizes
and we get to make a fair living as well

Join the Evolution !

[spotlight3d]

excuse me for being so verbose today people but my mind is going over these things and i have to get them out to see what you all think and where i might be missing somthing ?

am i correct in assuming these things?

Fabber = Robotic tool/CNC machine owner and user

Maker= anyone who has an idea for a product
project or perhaps invention.

Designer = the person who takes the makers idea and puts it into a CAD format along with some instructions for the maker to pass on to the fabber to create the parts or produce a finished product.

so in its simplest form its a three part business model. and to work properly at least the designers and the fabbers have to be totally on the same page in how these files / FABS are standardized and delivered to the fabber who is the final or second to last stage of the process

yes ?

[spotlight3d]

i forgot to add that the Fabber and designer may be the same person


but the designer by them self may publish files that the public/makers can buy that are made ready for the fabber to create with little or no further interaction with the designer.
these may be partially customizable if the designer provides the fabber instructions to that end by way of documents etc allowing the buyer/maker to have some limted by the project abialty to customize the product when they pass the file onto the fabber they choose to work with
and tell them what they would like

does this make sense?

[robert_cheal]

Paul,

I look forward to a future where we can all broaden our horizons with ideas like you and others are working on. Keep up the good work.

Robert

[rb99]

Glad to see you back!

Cheers,

RIB

[spotlight3d]

a possible fututre ?


imagine if you will 20 years from now a vibrant world economy where FABS are so common and in many cases so valuable they are traded bought and and sold like works of art
and the lesser ones are still at least as valuable of a currency as the US dollar.
and imagine also that the banking system now buys and sells these FABS in groups like blocks of capital or hey maybe even uses them as financial instruments. sort of like they were doing with our mortgages a year or two back

and again imagine if you will that these FABS really are just that FABS and only really have the Value that we put on them as humans suddenly for no apparent reason...... we all realize this fact!!!!!...... FAB brothers collapses, it starts a huge sell off of FABS and the global FAB economy collapses around us like a house of cards. Riots are everywhere in the streets of Fabscity ,people try to shelter in 100k garages around the globe. then low!!! a ray of light appears from the dust and gloom
its Shopbot 6-5000 and in its arms right from the secret labs at Durham NC the headquarters of megabot industries a baby new makerbot called tyro9000 the worlds first artifically intelligent
Robtic tool to lead the world out of the ruins to a new dawn of personal robotic freedom


surely this is how it will be ! who is that knocking at my door ?
what men ? what do mean white coats ?
Farm ? i don't want to go to a Farm dear i'm fine right here, huh ? no wait you cant do that !
.................................................. .................................................. .............................

[ted]

Hello Paul (and others),

Thanks for useful questions and the opportunity to clarify some of the goals and principles of 100kGarages.com.

As we have described on the site and elsewhere, the core services of 100kGarages, the Fabbers Map and Job Board offered to Makers, Fabbers, and Designers, will always be free. That's one of the great things about leveraging current internet/cloud technologies and inexpensive web hosting ...it keeps the costs to us low enough that we don't need to charge for them.

Our partner, Ponoko, besides having contributed much of the functional infrastructure to 100kGarages, is also working on some premium features for Fabbers and Designers who would like to take advantage of additional website business system components to expand their own business. When they are available (beta testing starting soon! (http://www.100kgarages.com/easycut_testers.html)), these added features will be entirely optional to the basic functionality of the 100kGarages web resources.

We are very excited about Vectric's participation and their willingness to provide design tools to serious Makers and Designers (see 100kGarages newsblog (http://blog.100kgarages.com/2010/01/08/what-are-we-working-on/)). During the beta period these design tools will be free, though we anticipate that once fully implemented there could ultimately be a small fee charged to Fabbers if they choose to use this service for processing files from Makers. The Vectric tools will be an incredible addition to 100kGarages and will put some of their powerful design and toolpathing tools into the hands of Maker and Designers.

To further clarify how we might fund the community efforts of 100kGarages; we may eventually sell advertising to help cover the cost of developing resources and materials for the site. We are also hoping that other digital fabrication manufacturers will choose to participate with us as sponsors for 100kGarages and for certifying owners of their tools (see What's Next statement (http://www.100kgarages.com/Whats_next.html)).

You mention concerns over file copyright and IP ownership with respect to developing content for the website. In particular, such issues are important to recruiting designers. We have been struggling with how to handle designs for a number of years and have offered ShopBotters two different experimental "Project Wizard" web approaches for file management. We probably do not yet have the perfect system, but are taking what we have learned over the past decade into the "Project" model for handling files that we recently implemented on 100kGarages (projects (http://projects.100kgarages.com/)).

I want to emphasize that we didn't start 100kGarages as a business endeavor for ShopBot ... we develop, manufacture, and sell CNC tools. But 100kGarages is part of our broader mission at ShopBot. We have worked for the last 15 years to communicate our enthusiasm for CNC and to help make these digital fabrication technologies affordable and available for small shops everywhere. We believe there are innovative new business models based on today's technologies that will reward micro-manufacturing and distributed production and will lead to returning productivity and manufacturing to our communities (see link (http://blog.shopbottools.com/index.php/2010/01/economy-continued-part-2/)). We're looking for ways to facilitate these new opportunities.

Because of our more global strategy and lack of emphasis on 100kGarages as a revenue source, we happily encourage all other attempts to creatively and innovatively bring new ideas, new models, and new resources in support of small businesses doing digital fabrication. We hope you are able to identify new methods for bringing Makers and Fabbers together, figure out how to support them, and that, in general, all of our efforts will contribute to a better public understanding of the capabilities of CNC and digital fabrication.

Ted Hall, ShopBot Tools

[spotlight3d]

Hi Ted thanks for your input and clarifying shopbots mission, i also think the best is yet to come for us all

didnt someone once say "we have nothing to fear but fear itself"