How do you price your HDU signs?

Well said, Raymond.
What is in the mindset of sign people that makes us almost ashamed of being paid for their work? I have watched/paticipated in this for years. Go to a plumber, electrician, welder, doctor, lawyer, Indian chief: see if they do not price at least market rates, most above. We are, afterall,craftsmen. We do what most people only dream of doing. We create something. That something is ours. Copy right and all. What not be paid what it is worth? We have allowed the public to control our income, livelyhood, and dreams. Why? Because they have seen it done for generations. Without sounding like a jerk, let me share my pricing philosophy. When a customer wants to pay less for a job, I tell them the only way to accomplish this will be by making it smaller. Smaller relates into less material cost, NOT less design time, quality of materials, etc.
I have watched and admired Raymonds work for many years, have visited with him at Fred Self's Letterheads meetings. He is absolutely right on. For those of you wondering about how to price jobs, there is a new book available from Sign Craft magazine. It is entitled , amazinly enough, 2006 Sign Pricing Guide. And, don't forget the tried and true 2006 Official Sign Contractors Pricing Guide, by Jack Rumph. Both these are excellent. There is a couple of articles in the Sign Craft that I copied and gave to our campers regarding how to determine an hourly rate, overhead, and billable hours. Most interesting reading.
It is up to you to determine what you are worth. Also, what your future holds regarding available funds for growth, new equipment, and peace of mind. This may be one time to really look at where you are headed. And, be honest with yourself.
Joe C. and I had almost this same discussion last week. I have four sticker shops in Ada, mostly Mom & Pop stuff. Three work of of their garage/home. Sure wish they would read some in the above books. I no longer attempt to bid on simple vinyl jobs. I can't afford to waste time on bids for jobs against them. Naturally, one of the same type shops closed up in December. No funds to operate on. Wonder why.
Remember: this is you livelyhood, your future. Just because is so enjoyable doesn't mean it is a hobby. It is your chose profession. Treat it as such.
Doug

I understand: You're in the process of building your business. You are probably one of a few router guys in that area, so if that's the case your very lucky.

It's not expected that you charge the same prices for your work as some of old, seasoned, artists. However it's good to remember that a reputation is built on quality not price. If price is the main basis by which customers choose you, the future isn't very bright. Quality wins out for small shops like ours.

Even if all your materials were free, still there is rent, utiltites, auto, childrens shoes, taxes, insurance, some kind of cash in the bank and old age retirement. All of this should be taken into account in your pricing.

Sorry I didn't mean to lecture.

Just remember, you can grow faster by doing something of quality. When you are known for that, customers will seek you out and pay your price.

Thanks to each of you fine folks for your input. All are thoughtful comments and I appreciate it.

I like doing work for other sign companies because all of the design work and decision making (colors, etc.) is generally done by the time I get the jobs to rout and paint. However, I have made an attempt recently to cut out the middle man, but the rather expensive ad I ran in the local "Yellow Book" has yielded not one call in the 2 months that it's been out. :-(

Obviously I need to do some serious research as to what the local market will truly allow price-wise for the type of signs I do. I think that my biggest client (a local store front franchise vinyl shop), has been selling the signs retail for about $55.00 per sq., and they have been supplying the material to me up till now. That price may be way too low based on some comments in this thread. If they could get $100.00 per sq., I'd be VERY happy with doing the work for, say, $75.00 per with me even supplying the HDU.

I am going to call some local commercial sign shops in the Atlanta area and try to find out what their prices look like for routed HDU work and get a better idea of where I'm at. Meanwhile, I have ordered one of the pricing guides mentioned by Doug. When I was researching pricing guides today, I came across this quote; "Remember, it takes absolutely NO SKILL whatsoever to LOWER your prices!"

Thanks again all, and I'll post in this thread what I find out in the next few weeks.

I think a well designed yellow page ad can really pay off.

When you think about it, how else is the buying public, who only orders a sign once in their life, find you? Most of my sales come from this type of customer.

I'm voteing for yellow pages.

Joe, just one small job could pay for my ad ($480.00), but so far, no calls. Perhaps my mistake was to run it in the "Yellow Book" and not the "Real Yellow Pages"? Live and learn.

Good Thought Mark,

Just for fun, look in your local yellow pages to see if there's anyone advertising Routed and Carved Signs.

That's what I did last year. The field was wide open. My AT&T yellow book covers about 1.5 million souls. So I went for it big time. My accesment was like yours, in that I only need one good job a month to make it worth while.

I'm not saying it allways works, but it's sure worked for me. I targeted my advertising. It only offers one kind of sign. "Beautiful Carved & Routed Signs". Thanks to Shopbot, I'm into a fun and profitable business.

Good luck with your business. I bet you do well.

Do you sign guys ever do free "show" signs? For example, for a school on a very busy route, with a small "Sign made by xyz" underneath.

Great discussion on a critical survival skill. PRICING FOR PROFIT. In our area vinyl guys get between $12.00 and $30.00/ sq ft so I can't imagine being even close to that range for the dimensional routed and finished work we do.
Our opening discussion with a client includes, "Do you have a budget?" We can fabricate signs from $50.00/ sq ft to $150.00+ / sq ft depending on graphics, material choices and finish.
Once a client can see the work in lower end materials like color core (cut and deliver) to more exotic logos and letters in exotic hardwoods, or finishes, they quickly realize the sign is in a totally different league than a 2 year life vinyl on sintra or MDO sign. If they don't have that kind of budget, someone else will appreciate the difference and understand the true VALUE in the work.
My opinion has been that the time, equipment, learning curve, overhead, design, competitive alternatives, and salesmanship all add up to create the total VALUE. Time and material pricing plans are for commodity items. The real question is "What would it cost to hand carve, hand route,or use Gemini letters?" A single gator foam unfinished Gemini letter can cost $5.00 to $55.00 alone!
When one compares the alternatives, a botter can deliver a signature piece that will last and elevate the image of their business or property.
Vinyl will give them a great Garage Sale look or window sign if thats what they want and the franchise shops are tripping over themselves to drive prices into the dirt to pay their franchise fees. Just doesn't seem to make a good business model from our perspective.
Finally I find that the proper client appreciates the technology and consultation to create a signature piece over the "send me your artwork" approach of a franchise vinyl shop. Every sign ends up having a story and a unique personality the buyer loves to tell his friends and customers about. That really does represent added value that customers appreciate having met with the "artist" that created their new sign.

Good stuff going on here, for sure. In my quest to research the local market prices for HDU signs, I found a web site for a local company that does wholesale routed (and blasted) HDU. I had heard of them before and they've been around for a good while. I requested a quote online (pretending to be a customer), for a 4'x8' routed HDU sign, single-sided and finished. Lo and behold, I got an e-mail quote yesterday morning for $1,760.00, or $55.00 per sq. ft. There would be an additional $75.00 if I couldn't supply a file/artwork, but the price did include 1.50" HDU and 1Shot paint. Shipping, of course, would be considerably extra, but this is some of my LOCAL competition. Shipping is not necessary, and I have no reason to believe that their work isn't first rate. For arguement's sake, let's say it is...

I am all for getting top dollar for my work. I am an experienced sign designer/fabricator and I've gotten pretty good on my Bot. I may not have the best business sense in town, but I do know enough to see what my competition is doing and what I'm up against. Actually, if I were getting $55.00 per sq. while supplying the foam and painting, I'd be doing a good bit better than I am now. So I called one of my best clients today and said; "Hey, man, we gotta talk..."

Here's the bottom line with me: I intend to get top money ($90.00-$100.00 per sq.) whenever and however I can (I just haven't found that magical market yet), but I still want to do the "wholesale" thing because it's easy money, just not "top" money. I see it like this...my Bot ain't making me one thin dime when it sits idle, and "a little bit of something is better than a whole lot of nothing".

Am I wrong about that? Thoughts appreciated...

If you start selling finished signs in a big way, you must expect to lose business from your wholesale customers because then you will be competing with them.