How do you price your HDU signs?

Not really, Gerald. They can't compete with ME because they have NO router table and no room to put one, but still have the market for that type of work. They need me and they know it. (Quite frankly, I need them, too!) I just have to figure out how to get my rates up to par and convince them (my customers) to raise their rates as well without everyone going into shell-shock. By the same token, I don't wanna cut off my own nose to spite my face. I've been doing work for some of these folks for 4 years. I have always offered personalized and EXTREMELY fast service, and that's gotta be worth something, no?

BTW, for those interested, here's a link to another forum where this very topic is still being discussed. Our good buddy Joe Crumely is in there with his 2 cents. ;-)

http://www.letterhead.com/ubb/ultima...c/1/39423.html

As I see it, one of the problems with selling dimensional signs by the square foot is just what you described - you want to go up on your prices, but how can you explain why you are asking more for the same product?

In order to get more we have to offer more. In our case, what we offer is design and image - not letters by the pound. Basically, we all have the same equipment (computers, routers, plotters, etc) although some may do slightly different things than others. So, what makes my work different from yours and why should I charge more? Hopefully, it is not because my equipment is faster, but rather that I can create a better image or mood for my client than anyone else.

In other words, I can make my customer look good...and that's my goal. If he looks good, I look good. If I can make him more money, he will make me more money.

Generally, I tell my customers, "This sign will make you more money than it does me".

Based on everything said above and the same input on the letterhead forum, its pretty obvious that a large part of the equation is salesmanship,believing in the value of your finished product, and understanding the costs are far more than material per sq ft. I remember when we all had the opportunity to buy YUGO's from Russia. Great price no doubt. Where are they and their customers now?
I guess there will always be those that try to compensate for low sales by "making it up in volume" but they don't last long.
The overwhelming concensus is clear. I just wonder what it will take for the bottom feeders to wake up.

Yugo's are Serbian, not Russian by about 1000 miles!
Still being made for those who need a cheap car.

............Mike

There appears to be an assumption here which doesn't stand up to scrutiny, the assumption that every ones costs are the same.
Someone renting or owning workshop space in the centre of a city are paying a lot more per square foot than someone with their workshop in the back yard.
Husband and wife working together is going to cost a lot less than employing someone.
Having a regular item you make and sell, so that sign making is only a part of your business that keeps the Shopbot from lying idle is going to be costed less per hour than those who have to work in 'idle' time.
The amount people need to take as a salary differs widely. My needs 25 years ago when I had four small children are greatly different than they are today.
There are those amongst us who can make the same profit out of $15 per square foot, as others at 5 times that amount (excluding similar materials).
It is irritating to be beaten on price. It is even more irritating to have hours in the day when you are not earning.
Pricing I believe is the hardest thing in business, when you are first starting, and have no reputation.
Your business will fail if you turn out a substandard product at any price.
Your business is much more likely to succeed if you turn out a high quality, original product that customers want, even at a much higher price.
But there are no guarantees.
It is possible to give (and take) advice about pricing strategy, and its vital you come up with the best solution for your situation, but someone in rural Virginia can hardly advise exact $$ prices to charge to someone in downtown Brooklyn.

It would be facile to even begin comparing prices anywhere in the USA to my locality!!

.............Mike

Raymond, another great post. You give me much to think about, good sir. Quite frankly, as a "sub-contactor", with most of the design work given to me, I have little opportunity to flex my muscles as a good designer and competent sign man. I'm working on changing that, but at this point it's still hard for me to imagine making the kind of money that you and some others do.

Jerry, if it wasn't for us bottom feeders, you Great White Sharks would have the ocean all to yourselves, and goodness knows we can't have that! ;-)

Excellent, Mike. Thank you. I cannot be compared to someone running a regular business, i.e., renting a shop, paying employees and their taxes, insurance, etc. I work alone. I built and payed for my shop and it is 6 steps out my front door. I'm a bachelor with no kids. $50.00 can serve me as well or better than $100.00 for some, but that doesn't mean I'd not take the Ben Franklin. But if I can't even make the $50.00, I'll take what I can get to make ends meet and not be ashamed about it.

I have a new customer (another sign shop) that has beat me up pretty bad on my prices. I hate to admit it, but I'm doing his work DIRT cheap. Why? Because I'm STILL making decent bucks and my Bot is running as I type this and not sitting there waiting for the next job. It is out in the shop working hard. I'm sittin' here typing like a fool.

Listen carefully to the guy (or gal) that comes by to sell you space in the yellow pages. (This is not about whether advertising in the YP is good or bad).

You will never hear them explain what it costs to print that book, or how much ink has gone up, or whether they live in the country or the city, or how many kids they have in college. None of those things determine what you will pay for the little space on one page of the book. And they don't try to defend the price - that's the price it is, take it or leave it. What they will do is to try to convince you how much more money you can make with that ad and how much exposure you will receive.

It sounds to me that some are in business just to keep their ShopBots running. If I can do one sign and make the same amount of money (profit - not just what I got for the sign) as you are doing ten, I'll be satisfied doing one and letting the router be silent for awhile...if I had one.

Go to any large city and you will usually find a Lexus car dealer. There will also be a Ford and a Chevy dealer. They all sells cars, but they are not all the same price. All of them do the same thing, but I would almost guarantee you that the Lexus dealer is not trying to justify his price by how little or large is overhead happens to be.

End of sermon.

Raymond, you are a wise man, and from what I hear, very talented as well. I am coming around to your (and other's) ways of thinking. I want to be the best around and get paid accordingly...not as just another dude with a router table, but as someone that can take those extra steps to make something unique and beautiful and command top dollar for it.

I have learned a lesson here and I'm not too proud to admit it. Thank you all, and...

LET'S GO DO IT!!!