Lucas. As you can see I'm new to this also, but I believe the cooling air intake for the motors comes in at the top of one of the end panels & is filtered. If you look at Gary's photos #1 & 4 in post #2 you will see what I'm referring to.
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Lucas. As you can see I'm new to this also, but I believe the cooling air intake for the motors comes in at the top of one of the end panels & is filtered. If you look at Gary's photos #1 & 4 in post #2 you will see what I'm referring to.
Yes, I see now! Thank you Daren.
Bit of a puzzle this one. A fun challenge.
Thanks again!
Daren...
1) The early design had relays, etc for control, which turned out to be costly and didnt work as well as I wished. The latest versions use one side upper chamber for intake cooling air with filter fabric. Other side upper is unused. The cutouts thru the sides are adjusted accordingly.
2) Yes, but to date havent heard that anyone has had to do that.
3) No, they seem to flow just fine AND most importantly keep cool. If you do this post some pics.
4) I have run all that I have installed on 30A breakers.
Lucas...
See Daren's #1 above
Thanks Gary. I'm starting to get a pretty clear understanding of how your box is designed now. Only a couple questions remain. :confused:
What did you end up using for an air filter in your boxes? I expect it doesn't need to be anything special given that the air is just for cooling the motor. I believe I will also need a filter on the open-air valve in the PVC plumbing, & that one should probably be a bit better seeing as the air goes through the motor. But then again, maybe I'm just over thinking this whole thing & it doesn't matter much either - maybe it's just like my dust collector.
Also, what type of fitting do you use to connect the box to your table plumbing? I'm picturing the box sitting on the floor connected with rigid PVC pipe fittings & then someone walking by bumps the box (or it simply 'walks' a little from motor vibration) causing the connections to break. I'm thinking that you either fasten the box to the floor and/or use some kind of flexible connector.
Daren...
I used a couple layers of spray booth intake (tacky) filter cloth. I have purchased it in the past in 2' by 100' rolls, so I had it on hand.
For the fitting into the box, I used a 3" male threaded adapter glued into the box with silicone. I used a 3" "no hub" connector as a union and vibration isolator between the box and the table manifold.
I used a fully glued spoilboard and never used a filter. But I would never say that using one is not a good idea. Some of the best minds here recommend them.
Gary,
I've never seen it, but that spray booth filter cloth sounds perfect for the vac motor cooling air via the cutout in the black box.
I'm also going to be using a glued-down spoilboard so no filter there. I was thinking however that I should put a filter of some kind on the open air valve (which I believe should be open when starting the vacs to reduce load?). That spray booth filter should work well for that too though.
That no-hub coupling sounds like a good idea for vibration. I'm planning to use a closet flange screwed & siliconed to the box.
Do you fasten the box to the floor somehow? PL400? Rubber feet?
Thank you
I chose not to use a filter on mine. The people who recommend them are correct. A dedicated filter is a good idea, if you want to be sure.
I am willing to take the risk, of relying on my bleeder board to filter the air, as a tradeoff for plumbing that may perhaps be slightly less restrictive. This is only a guess.
I did throughly vacuum out my plenum prior to gluing my bleeder board down. I also made sure to clean all debris from the plumbing, during installation. One chunk of loose crud, can destroy these kinds of motors.
I will have to put some spray booth filter cloth over the intake vent on my enclosure.
This is what I came up with, and my gauges show no difference with or without it in line:
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/sho...ghlight=filter
...I finished my box a while ago & have been happily using it with 2 motors (2 more just ordered). Now I'm finally able to post my version of it here along with some pics of this awesome little vac box. Thanks again to Gary for continuing to answer my relentless questions & for sharing his great design - I recognize that it came from a long road of experimenting & improving. So, in keeping with that development, if I'm able to answer any questions or pay-it-forward somehow to help anyone else, don't hesitate to ask. I'll post pics of my table & vacuum plumbing in other more appropriate threads.
I re-drew the entire box in SketchUp so that I could completely understand how everything worked & fit. I also made a couple of small mods:
1) Added a threaded rod 'indicator' to the flapper so that I could see from the outside of the box, which position the flapper was in. It also allowed me to manually set its position in case something didn't work as planned.
2) Removable top & sub-top panels so that I could access the motors.
3) Removable bottom panel to access the air filter.
4) Homemade air filters to all 3 of the different air intakes.
5 more pics
last 5 pics
I noticed the Lighthouse vac motors require a 1/4" hole (per motor) to allow leakage for proper cooling. Do you guys put (2) 1/4" holes in each chamber of the vac motors or do you put (4) holes in the plenum?
Thanks,
Paul
PS. I just ordered (4) of the LH 7123 :D
Greetings, Paul
I used a 1/2" ball valve in the manifold to allow bleed air into the system for the times when I cut material that allows me to get a perfect seal. With a perfect seal, the vacuum drops 1 in.Hg when the bleed air valve is fully opened. I installed a sintered bronze muffler on the valve to help with noise and to ensure that nothing gets sucked in. Most of the time I allow the motors to breathe a little by leaving a gap in the vacuum mask around the part that I am holding. I like the valve idea because, depending upon what I am holding, it gives me the option to leave it closed, open it part way, or open it all the way.
Kind regards,
JIM
Thanks Jim, I'll try that approach. Where did you get the bronze muffler?
Thanks,
Paul
Greetings, Paul
Grainger sells them in various sizes. I used a 1/2" NPT muffler.
Kind regards,
JIM
Paul: Good question, I didn't know about that.
Jim: That looks like a good idea.
I believe there's probably enough leakage in my system to equal the flow through a 1/4" hole per motor. Guess I'll know if one of the motors burns out. I do have a separate 2" valve that I open when starting & stopping the motors though to reduce the load at startup.
Jim,
Thanks for the link.
Daren,
The 1/4" hole per motor is mainly for cooling the vac. I always have wondered if I had enough leakage in my system so that I wouldn't need the seperate holes. I wonder if anybody has figured out how much leakage there is by gauging how strong the vacuum reading is? To better explain... If you have 10"hg of vac and that is the max this motor is capable of, then there would be 0 leakage. But if you're reading 9"hg of vac, then that equates to "blank" leakage? (I'm not smart enough to figure that out:confused:)
Greetings,
I used a 1/2" valve because the area of a 1/2" circle is the same as the sum of the area of four 1/4" circles. In may case, I read 11 in/Hg with all motors running, all the zones valves closed, and the with the bleeder valve closed. When I open the bleeder valve all the way I read 10 in/Hg. If my part/sheet hold down is leaking and I read 10 in/Hg then I don't open the valve because I figure the motors are getting a little air which appears to be a loss of 1 in/Hg. Not very scientific, but it seems to work for me.
Kind regards,
JIM
Good idea Jim. It may not be scientific, but it seems perfectly logical to me:)
Hi ,I would like to make my first vac table. I love the black box that has been made. can any one send me the files. thanks alot larry
kilian55@comcast.net
I am also working on a vacuum enclosure for up to 4 Litehouse motors, Daren and Gary would you be willing to share your 3D CAD designs with me? I'm going to run a CFD on my enclosure when it is complete and make sure there arent any unneccesary restrictions and will be more than willing to share my completed design.
Richard, et al....
I only have eCabinets files for this project that are incomplete at best. It was a project that in the long run, turned out to perform much better and run quieter and cooler than even I had expected. Even though I had made, sold and installed a number of these systems for profit, I decided that the ShopBot community could benefit from the design so I put all the info I have on the forum to allow it to be open source.
I would be open to assisting someone that wanted to take the design and turn it into PartWorks compatible vectors to share with the ShopBot community. (improvements welcomed) Even more so with someone that would accompany the vectors with some written instruction and/or explanation. With that said, I would NOT be open to those that wanted to profit from my original design. This "open source" vacuum idea was born with a thread started by Brady Watson and only contributed to, albeit with a few variations, by me.
This design is my intellectual property, and I have given it freely to this community for non-commercial use. Permission for commercial use of the design has not and will not be given.
Daren seems to have made a great start to my intended end, maybe he can be convinced to bring the project to the next level.
Gary,
I've bought all the parts for the build, but haven't had time to build it yet because I've been so busy with work. I would be more than happy to make a full set of partwork files for it to share with the community. To build off your plans, the only thing I would need is a drawing with dimensions or dxf/dwg and then I can convert everything to partworks.
Thanks,
Paul
I am happy to give back to this community Gary, thanks for asking.
I agree with Gary about the limits of this information that we're sharing (ie: non-commercial use, etc...) and have added those notes in my file. Here is a DXF file that can be imported as vectors into your choice of CAM software for your final touches. It does not contain step-by-step instructions or a complete materials list, but that info can be easily acquired from this forum.
Cheers
Daren...
Thanks a lot for taking the time to post this.
Has anyone made any progress on making the partworks files? I tried, but without the dimensions it is going to be hard to do.
David
David, scroll/down up to post #104. ;)
Yeah, I got the dfx file, but how tall what lengths, dimensions are the sizes of each part. Those are not there. Besides, it doesn't matter. I qjust guess CNC work is not for me, I am going to haul the thing to the scrap yard!
David, this stuff can be really frustrating - believe me, I know!
The DXF file I uploaded of the vac box is to scale, so you should be able to import it into your design software & the parts should be the right sizes. Here's the dimension of one item so you can confirm it. Hang in there, it gets easier...or so I'm told.
Speaking about frustration: I believe that allot of this software is amazing in many ways, but some of it (eg: eCabinets & ShopBot Link) seems intentionally difficult to work with. It's impossible for me to believe that anyone could actually be very productive with it. I guess that's where the value of good software really is. I used to work with a company that used good software, but never really appreciated it until now that I can't afford it. Someday perhaps.
Daren,
Thanks, that makes sense now. Since they are to scale I can get them into Aspire.
David
All you have to do is open it in Aspire and delete the arrows you will have to join the sides alsoQuote:
Originally Posted by crash5050
One thing that may not make sense to you when looking at the vectors would be the exhaust holes in one of the panels. That's because I drew them as angled cuts going through the panel. You'll have to clean these up a little before cutting.
And like Jerry said, just move my notes & lines to another layer so they won't get cut - or delete them.
I would appreciate any positive or negative feedback on the way I have drawn this in aspire. I used Daren's dfx file, and attempted to toolpath it somewhat like the poictures of Gary's Box. Please feel free to make adjustment's or use this as a template for your own box.
David
David, I am not sure I know what I am looking at, am pretty low on the totem pole around here as far as computers and proramming, etc. However, I did notice that you have tiny little tabs holding your parts in place and only one for each part. With no vacuum as yet, I would make my tabs at least .75" long and .25" thick and add several of them to each piece. I you use 3d tabs, you might make them .5" thick. Just my humble opinion, ....joe (would show a smile here, but don't even know how to do that!)
like this :)
Yeah, but when I try it, all I get is a :). What am I doing wrong??? joe
Well, It worked!! When you hit submit, then it makes the smiley face...joe
Now, I am complete!!
Quick question about the litehouse motors... is there any reason why you would use the LH7123-13 motors as Gary uses opposed to the LH6765-OD 240 volt that is on the same page that Gary links to at the beginning of this thread? Beyond that they are not flat bottomed they seem that they would have more suction value to them.
Thanks!
Jason...
The do have more suction, but due to the non flat bottom and overdrive, I selected "the ol standby" (LH 7123) If you buy them, let us know how they work. :)
Wow that was a fast reply!Quote:
Originally Posted by garyc
Thanks Gary, appreciate it! And thanks for a great thread too with all your helpful insights and pictures along the way :)
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/sho...7&postcount=91
From post #91, how was the switchbox attached to the metal frame?
Thanks to Gary and everyone who contributed to this thread - I think this will do great towards lessening the noise in my shop. Can't wait for the motors to arrive so I can get this thing on-line.
John