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I been using this program for a few days, it works very well the download version was 26.00 well worth it, the interface is very easy it will create quite a few gear types and chain drives.
I was able to export a dxf and go right to cutting without any file cleanup.
Link http://woodgears.ca/gear/index.html
A few examples of what I have cut.
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1/IMG_2331.jpg
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1/IMG_2332.jpg
Gears are fun. Here's a set I did last year. The drive motor is a 3rpm microwave turntable motor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj9Xt...tJayUy3glECFP7
...and here's a prototype of another set I was working on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=ZWoprtB_7zE
Some of the working examples you can find on youtube are astounding! Check this guy out. He's in Australia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--GzAChLSz4
I'll also give a shout out to "Gearotic Motion" I have bought the full versions of both.
http://www.gearotic.com/
and @ Mark: what kind of torque do you get from a micro table motor? Thats a great source of low cost, low RPM motors I hadn't considered.
Chris,...those little motors have an amazing amount of torque. Connecting them to the drive gear can be a little tricky but yes, these motors are readily available in various RPM's for not a lot of money and they are quiet. Most of the noise you hear from a typical microwave oven comes from the fans.
The fellow in Australia (Brett Dickins), uses motors from old VCR/VHS players. I haven't seen one of those in 10 years.
Thanks Mark, off to the salvage yard...
I am assuming these are typicaly 120v AC motors? or are they stepped down DC? (I'm sure I will find out, just thinking about power supplies)
..And nice thought too on VCR's, though I dont think I've seen one of those for a while either. Note to self: drop by goodwill.
Chris that second one from Austrailia looks like something you would come up with! :) Russ
Chris - I always look for the 120v, preferably with a metal drive shaft and not plastic, although the plastic ones may be fine I dunno. The shafts are short, about 1/2", typically 1/4" diameter with a "D" profile. Ideally, you'll want the little plastic cog that slides over the shaft and fits in a pocket under a glass microwave turntable, and the cogs can be hard to find. Here's a motor on ebay that comes with a cog, but the seller is not very descriptive about the motor itself: http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMANA-MICROW...item3f0b360978
(Usually on ebay they don't come with the cogs.) What I have done before is to fasten the cog to the back of the drive gear with some small screws then slide that over the drive shaft of the motor.
Goodwill would be a good resource for the entire oven. I bought a nice one there for $10.00, then proceeded to dismantle it and ended up with the motor and the cog.
Mark and Chris - Come on now about the VCRs. They are not that antiquated!:) I still use mine 2 or 3 times a week to record TV shows, no kidding. The VHS blank tapes are getting hard to find though.
I also don't text with my cellphone. It doesn't even have a qwerty pad.:eek:
Makes me wonder how I ever came to own a Shopbot. :rolleyes:
u can still get vcr blanks at radioshack
TV Tuner in the laptop. Record my shows that way:D
I don't even have a cellphone! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by blackhawk
OK sorry to hijack this thread, but...
Mark, I went down to goodwill today and scored a breadmaker. Sweet motor in a good low profile mount and easily adaptable shaft.
I am assuming it is pretty high torque, as it runs the dough hook.
Problem is that I know nothing about appliance wiring.
I can trace the hot and neutral from the plug to the control board.
Problem is that coming out of the control board is a three wire plug to the motor w/ red blue and white wires.
Any info on what this is? I have tried, and my Google-Fu is weak today. I am more confused that when I started. Very little info on the motor plate. (part #, 120v AC 60hz, and an inspection sticker) No hits on the part #. My best guess so far, is that it is a capacitor start motor. Is there any way to easily wire this thing up to run a kinetic sculpture? (Let me add that my knowledge of electronics is basic at at best)
Thanks
Chris
Chris - we're in the same boat. I can do very basic wiring and that's about it. I'm askeered of electricity. Can't see it, smell it or hear it, and it can put a hurtin' on ya. You might take it to an appliance repair shop and ask someone.
Sounds like a good motor though! I once used a motor from a machine that would spin hot pretzels on display and it worked great. However, that was 25 years ago and I had cut all of my gears out with a jig saw. Careful as I was, the teeth never would align properly and that kinetic wall sculpture ended up in the landfill. Wish I had kept the motor! :(
Right on Mark, Thanks.
Maybe someone a little more electronics/mechanical saavy will chime in.
just to pretend I know what I'm doing... I put a multimeter on it and got some readings if this will help anyone identify this thing.
I'm askeered of electricity. Can't see it, smell it or hear it, . You forgot to say..."but you damn well can FEEL it!"
I haven't been "askeered" of anything since i was about 10...lol, that brought back some memories:)
How bout using a rotisserie motor from a outdoor cooker? I recall when i was young we had a outdoor cooker that you scured(?) your meat to and hung this motor above the cooker and it rotated it.
Bread makers have two speeds in them one for mixing and the otther for kneading the bread. It is just a guess but 3 wires 2 speeds
Chris,
Since you seem to be the "guru of gears"...(Nemo Door) I have been watching a few of the gearotic motion tutorials and he demo's it in mm's and i wondered if it had a selection for inches?
I had downloaded the demo some time ago and frankly got lost in the interface. I need to go back and start over. Is it pretty easy to just create a simple set of say 3 or 4 meshing gears like was pictured here previously?:confused:
Unless you need more than 1/2 horsepower, there is absolutely no advantage to using an AC motor. They have the highest danger...and the lowest usefulness. You should be fooling with DC motors and controls until you have a need for more horsepower. You can get DC motors in all shapes sizes and power bands from tiny ones that run on batteries to 2 or more horsepower treadmill motors. They are easily controllable.
If you just want something to consistently turn a geartrain for display purposes, then just buy a synchronous timing motor. They are like $20 or less, run on straight AC and are pegged to the Hz of the current, for consistent slow RPM. Being a little more scientific when it comes to your motor selection will help in the long run...How much power do you really need? How fast does it have to turn? What form factor/size does it need to be? Do you need to vary the RPM?
-B
Chris - on you ohm-meter readings.
That does not give enough information to identify how to use the motor. If the motor has a part number on it you can look up, that helps a lot.
It is most likely an AC motor, the best way to know for certain without documentation is to run it in the microwave before you remove it and see how its driven. Be absolutely sure you have disabled the magnetron before attempting this!
My approach to using salvaged parts is to "see how it worked for them". By watching the signals on an oscilloscope until I understand what is happening. Then hook the thing up in a circuit that works the same way and it will do the same thing for me.
The ohm readings show two series coils inside the motor, are those an AC drive for two possible voltages? Or a two phase bipolar drive from a microprocessor? (Think sin-cos variable speed drive). [The latter isnt very common so the first option is most likely].
What I would do without any more information is hook it up to a 12v transformer and see if it runs. Its low enough voltage to not burn it up if its not going to run. With 80 ohms coil resistance it makes me think its probably a low voltage unit.
If you burn it out it didn't cost a whole lot. Let us know.
------
Brady - WTF?:
And warn about them being dangerous, followed by a recommendation to use an AC motor as having the best advantage:Quote:
Originally Posted by bradywatson
Clarify please.Quote:
Originally Posted by bradywatson
Dana,
Aside from you, I doubt anyone fooling with salvaged motors in this thread has a scope, let alone the knowledge on how to properly use one!
An off the shelf $23 AC synchronous timing motor that just needs to be plugged in, is a heck of a lot safer than monkeying with hacked AC components. You just plug it in. Done. No need to get under the hood & tinker.
If someone just has tinker - DC is safer and easier to understand for people new to electric motors, provided that you are running at a lower voltage potential than AC. A 12 or 24v little motor is not going to throw someone across the room if they make a mistake while tinkering. This is why children's 'learn electronics' kits don't come in a 120v AC version :rolleyes:
-B
Brady - I googled "synchronous timing motors" and they look amazingly similar to the microwave turntable motors I've been yacking about, and for roughly the same price. They also have the same tiny drive shafts, most even smaller in diameter (1/8" vs 1/4") and that presents a problem for securing the motor shaft to the drive gear.
http://www.hansen-motor.com/ac-synchronous-motors.php
If one wants an AC motor for continuous power on a larger display, finding a slow-turning motor with an adaptable (larger, longer) shaft is most of the battle and at least half of the frustration of building a nice one that will run quietly for hours on end. I liked Jack's idea about a rotisserie motor, but where on earth to find them? If ya gotta buy a whole new rotisserie just to get the motor, you're not doing it right!
Mark,
Yeah...the shafts are a bit stubby, but I don't think it would be hard to machine a pocket into a drive gear to mate it up perfectly - then just tag it to the shaft with a grub screw.
McMaster has some here
-B
Brady (or anyone),
I'm wanting to make some gears and do a sculpture and have read what all are saying but what would someone need to know about motor size depending on the amount of gears you want to run?
What i mean is lets say i want to make a simple gear set of 4 gears at 6" diameter, that would take less torque or power to turn then say a set of 8 gears at 9" diameter. How do i determine what size/type motor i might need depending on the size or complexity of the sculpture? How would i measure the amount of torque needed to run one? Is it as simple as buying a motor that would handle the biggest thing you might make and not worry about it? Since i have not made one yet am I just overthinking it?:confused:
Jack, I think you are over-thinking it to a degree. If you watch the first youtube link I posted in this thread of the gear set I did last year, the center drive gear is 19" in diameter, and the shell they are all mounted to is 24" x 48". The gears are cut from 3/4" pvc and have some weight, but the little microwave turntable motor drives them just fine. The bigger problems stem from mounting the motor to the drive gear (tiny shaft), and mounting all of the rest of the gears on their own shafts so that they will spin freely and all mesh correctly. I used 1/4" bolts but they have threads that the gears can tighten themselves down on and lock up the whole works. An extra nut on the back helped that problem, but didn't cure it entirely. The problem is that you want all the gears to look tight (not flopping around), but to spin freely with little or no resistance. It can get very tricky.
Brett Dickens in Australia uses wooden dowel rods for his shafts and while he hasn't been clear to me on how he attaches everything (obviously the gears can't spin off the shafts), he seems to have it down to a science.
To me, it's all a fascinating mix of math, engineering and design that I have yet to master like Brett has. He sells his displays and does well. If he is a graduate of "gear college", I'm still in elementary school. I haven't completed another set since the one last year and I won't try another one until I have better ideas for motors and mounting. Finished displays should work perfectly with little or no maintenance. Mine is relatively simple but when I flip the switch, my friends can hardly take their eyes off of it. Everybody likes to see things go "round and round". :)
Edit to say, you can buy rotisserie motors, both AC and DC, but they come with no shaft, just a pocket for a shaft. Now ya gotta find the shaft, haha! http://www.4thegrill.com/rotisserie-...isserie-motor/
If you google "rotisserie motor", you can find a wide variety and they are not pricey and most are ready to "plug and play".
Get shoulder bolts made just for what you are trying to do the shoulder of the bolt is smooth and bigger around than the threads so you can tighten it to what ever you're mounting to and tighten it up and not bind on the gear I hope I explained that right:confused:
Mark,
I watched that video before (where do you think i got my interest in making a gear sculpture?, that is so f'ing COOL!).
"The problem is that you want all the gears to look tight (not flopping around), but to spin freely with little or no resistance. It can get very tricky."
Again with overthinking it, but so as not to run into the issues you mention here and not having the program it would seem that when you make a set of gears you would set it up within a project framework, then your holes could be drilled exactly based on the shaft placement according to the gear array you create, am I on the right track?:confused:
OK wow, a bunch of things to respond to.
As far as the framework goes, this is one of the biggest advantages of Gearotic IMHO. When using the output module you can save a dxf of the framework calculated by the prog. Gives you all the center points of all the gears in your system. I have just then modifed this in Rhino/PW to create a housing for my gears. I generaly just mark my drill points with a Vbit and then drill to the dia. of my shafts with an accurate bit on the press.
...and yes, shoulder bolts (right on Mark, didn't think to mention) are perfect for this. I am now cutting my framework in sheet aluminum and then drilling/tapping holes for the bolts. (near perfect gear meshing for my tolerences)
@Jack:
In gearotic there is a program settings icon on the top bar to the right (a little green sphere with a chain link) Heres where you can toggle metric or SAE for your projects. The interface is not really intuitive but I have been able to get what I need via changing the D pitch and wheel teeth # to get the gear I want. Just watch the relationships to get a sense of how they interact. The actual mechanical theory is more complicated but for this purpose it has been sufficient. Getting meshing gears is a breeze as they are calculated by the prog. Nice feature is that in the spur gear panel, it gives you the minimum bit dia. to cut the involute "flat on the table".
@Dana:
As I posted earlier, the motor I have does have an info plate, but unfortunately with little helpful information. (no hits on product #) It does however say 120v 60Hz so it is clearly an AC motor. As it is from a breadmaker I will guess it has 2 speeds with different voltage ( prob. mixing and dough kneading as Edward suggested) Ill go ahead an hook it up to a 12v supply as you suggested to test. I'll report back.
@Brady:
As for safety, I am a contractor by training, not an engineer, so mains power is something I am both comfortable with and respectful of. My electronic geek friends get really annoyed by me as I still tend to "lock-out/tag-out" even for LV situations. Trust me, I am well away when power is applied (5' away with a covered switch wired w/ romex into a handy box screwed to my work table, motor housing held in a ramussen clamp). I might fry something, but no threat to life and limb.
Also these motors are damn near free. ( I paid all of $1.75 for the motor in question) A good learning situation for me, and if I get it to work? bonus.
@Mark:
one of the other scores was a george foreman JR rotisserie. I pulled the motor/gearbox... and wow. 120v, 2 lead, AC with a 12mm "D" shaft. Incredibly quiet, approx. 3RPM, and I cannot stall it with my fingers. No idea how it compares in torque to the aftermarket rotisserie motors, but it seems perfect for my purposes. The price was right ;-) and I am keeping an eye out for similar items on craigslist, freecycle, etc...
Side note: I also pulled apart a paper shredder and electric can opener from a yard sale. Nice torque and easy wiring, but damn... the noise. Give em a pass for kinetic sculpture.
Anyway,
Thanks for all the feedback.
This is a great forum.
Chris
Heres a bunch of stuff along similar lines and all Botable!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dehXi...e_gdata_player
Bob,
I've seen that before and that is so amazing:D
http://www.mpja.com/1-RPM-120VAC-Timer-Motor/productinfo/17843+MA/
Is this cheap enough?
Steve
NO! Free is cheaper!:eek: lol
Do you think there might be an issue due to the short shaft? I know it is an issue for some...;) How would you mount it behind something and have room to attach a gear? Have you used any of these yet?
here is another source...
http://www.micromark.com/motors.html
Quote:
Have you used any of these yet
No, I haven't used them... just saw them and thought of this thread. I figure that with 1rpm it must have lots of torque. If I were trying to use one of these I would make a gear with a center hole slightly smaller than the one that comes mounted on the motor, force the gear into it and run that gear direct drive.
Steve
Ohh, nice links gents...
Thanks I'll definately look into those. They probably are not big enough to run the larger project I am working on at the moment, but they might just be perfect for a couple of smaller pieces I have in mind later down the line.
@ Chris - please post what you come up with, can't wait to see it in action!
Edit to say: lot's of good links and ideas to/for motors in this thread!
Is anyone proficient using Gearotic Motion? I'm tempted to buy it but after going thru some of the tutorials and creating a simple 4 gear setup I still can't seem to figure out how to export a project for cutting?
Also since i have an indexer i thought it might be cool to try to mill some gears using it but i'm unclear on how you might set that up being able to cut the gears on the side rather then from the flat?
Hey guys there is a free vector program, "Inkscape" that will render vector gears of any size: http://inkscape.org/
Once you have downloaded the program, open it, click on Extensions, then Render>Gear. You will be able then to select how many teeth, pitch, etc., then draw your gear(s). I save mine as an .eps and that imports fine in my CAD program (I use SignLab 5), where I'm able to cut them if I want.
It doesn't add center designs or anything else,... I do that in SignLab.
What the hey, it's free and totally worth playing around with.
Jack, I wouldnt say I am pproficient with Gearotic... But have used it successfuly for several projects. I can help with the output module to DXF for flat cutting. Not so much for an indexer (never used or designed for one) They also have a pretty lively forum on thier site.
My friend, Marv, got rid of his bag phone and now uses a cell phone with a rotary dial.
Chris (or anyone),
I'm working on an idea for a gear sculpture. Not only do i want to make gears spin but i would like to make a part of a carving move. My thought was to have the carving in the pic stationary on the face but somehow detatch the tongue from it and have it attached to a small gear via a rod behind the carving and let the tongue wag up and down.
I guess my question is, how can i determine how large of a gear i would need in order to make the tongue travel up and down probably no more then between 1/2" or 1"?
If you can visualize the drive wheel on an old locomotive where it pushes the rod back and forth, that is what i am visualizing as the mechanism for the movement?:confused: