Windows 8 and a new slow comm rate

I've read several hundred posts from the archives here, and they have been very helpful, but I haven't quite found the full solution, yet. So I'll stop lurking and post a direct question.

Is there enough bandwidth to be found by streamlining a new Windows 8 system to bring the communications rate of a PRT 48x96 V4g from 46% efficiency up to something nearing 70%? I read of the improvements people have found by using the Black Viper recommendations, but my machine has a long way to go and I'm wondering if I've got the wrong USB-to-Serial drivers installed.

About 8 months ago, I bought a used PRT96 V4g with no software. An ancient E-Machine computer was thrown in the deal (remember those?) that had a whopping 384 meg of RAM. I downloaded the latest SB3 controller software and installed it. It ran -- sort of OK -- for the last six months, which is the full time period I have been learning to work with a CNC.

I have my first real contract for a sign due in two week so I decided to replace the computer with something faster and more reliable. I bought a new Toshiba laptop with 8 meg of RAM and Windows 8. After reinstalling SB3, the control software could not find the table at an active comm port. I fixed that with the advice of a post I found here. I disabled the UAC and reinstalled the software and USB driver. The USB is now on port 3. But now I lose communication with the table controller about every 30 minutes -- and the speed test (which I have now discovered, with thanks to those on this forum) shows a modest 46% efficiency. Is that why I'm losing connection? I've disabled all of the power-off and power-down features of the computer.

Or could it be I've got the wrong USB-to-serial driver for my machine and Windows 8? One of the posts here says that the USB drivers included with the SB3 setup.exe is for systems where the USB connects directly to the main board. Those that go through a serial conversion need different drivers. I've included a picture of the inside of my PRT controller where the USB cable connects to the board. What drivers do I need -- and would that bring me nearer to the 70% transfer rate of efficiency?

Advice shared by the people of this forum have been my major source of education. I'm very thankful to you.

Mike

You need to get into the power scheme for the computer and turn off power managment for the USB host.

Thanks, Dish. I didn't know the USB hubs were on a power management scheme. I found six root hubs and turned off the power-down option on all of them. I'll see what this does when I go into the shop on Monday.

Hi Mike,

Re: your USB speed - are you using a USB hub between your computer and the ShopBot?

Hi Ron,

I don't have a hub. The USB cable is plugged directly from the laptop port to the input cable out of the control box.

Mike

Take head of Ron's words. When I got my Buddy SB provided a non powered hub. I thought that was nice of them but I don't need it as just plug straight into my laptop. Then read on the forum that you got use it. So I plugged it in and got a 10% increase in the speed test....from 68% to 78%:eek:

Apparently the USB hub forces the computer into USB II speeds, which the shopbot can not do.

Check your manual carefully. It tells you about this and also cautions against some hubs that will not work. (Belkin I think)

Also make sure that your WiFi is off. If you are using the Bot for business just figure that the computer is dedicated to it and don't try to do anything else with it. I did that to my Buddy and once we got everything up and running it has been flawless for over a year.

Ditch the USB2Serial & get an IOGear brand from SB directly or online. Sometimes you can find them locally - NOT ALL are created equal - get the IOGear. Install the drivers before plugging it in to USB.

Get yourself a USB 2.0 hub, the self powered kind. Any brand will do - whatever is on sale is fine. Target had them for $12 near me yesterday. Plug the hub into your computer - It creates a Windows enhanced port, which gives higher speed & bandwidth. Plug USB cable LESS THAN 12', into hub. Plug other end into IOGear converter.

Load firmware from SB3 via UI command. Run UR if necessary to pick what machine you have & you're off to the races.


-B

Brady - what do you mean by "ditch the USB2Serial"? Is that an option inside the ShopBot controller? I don't see any slots in there. The main board has an input labeled "Serial" and that's all I see. (picture on post at top of this thread) I could be missing something...("Imagine that!!" my kids would say.)

Ron's comment was all that was necessary for me to think that perhaps a USB hub would be part of the solution. I read about 2 hours worth of posts about the value of USB hubs (forcing the USB driver to an enhanced USB port) and became a believer.

You guys are incredibly patient to be answering the same ol' newbie questions, over and over again. I read about 2 year's worth of them about USB hubs! Thanks, again.

Went out and bought one this morning - a non-powered USB hub - and plugged it into the Toshiba. The USB2Serial driver (Future Technology Devices) showed up on an enhanced PCI USB hub. Great! So I ran some tests: (Windows 8 with as many services disabled as Black Viper advises for "safe" - he doesn't have a "bare bones" setting for Win8, yet):

No-hub speed test = 46.1%
With hub on enhanced USB port = 46.1%
With hub on a standard/generic USB port = 46.1%

I've tried all 3 physical USB port on the computer, with and without hub - all give 46.1%

I replaced the old E-machine desktop (the on with only 384 meg RAM and an ancient AMD processor) to test it. Result = 46.2%

I bought a new USB cable and tried it = 46.1%

I'm beginning to think this old PRT96 is only capable of 46.1%.

The USB to Serial converter you show in the pic is not up to par with the requirements of a robotic tool. Get an IOGear brand USB to serial converter from ShopBot or online. Then it'll be all hucky duck. Load the IOGear drivers BEFORE you plug in the USB to the PC. Then your COM rate will be in the 70-85% range, which is good.

If you are running a Dell, which are notoriously HORRIBLE for USB hardware, hook yourself up with a PCI to USB expansion card, plug the hub into that, and USB cable into converter.

All this stuff is pretty important, so don't stray from these proven recommendations...or you'll wind up doing them later anyway ;)

-B

Thanks, Brady. I plan to follow your advice. The confusion I had earlier about what a USB2Serial converter actually is has been cleared up in the meantime. I've opened the controller box, pulled the old converter and confirmed that it is an alien body in my Bot. The guys at ShopBot have never seen it. I found a website from info on the chip and downloaded their driver - same old results.

Thanks, again. It's fun being part of this forum. Starting a totally new career and line of work at age 59 has been an uphill struggle, but the challenge has been refreshing - and I hope it will be rewarding.

Mike

Welcome to the forum, Mike!

Be patient with yourself, get good at CAD/CAM, do lots of reading here, don't be afraid to ask questions & most importantly - Have fun!!!

CNC opens up a whole new realm of possibilities...You are going to love it.

-B

Just to button up this discussion...

I bought an IOgear USB-to-serial converter (product # GUC232A), installed it (after finding a new driver online -- the included CD did not have one for Windows 8) and plugged it in through a non-powered hub, which moved the driver to an "enhanced" USB port.

My old interface was giving me 46% efficiency on the speed test. My first test of the new interface was 80.2% !

All is now sweetness and light. (Thanks, Brady, and others!)

Mike