Help with pricing a used ShopBot!

I am on the verge of purchasing a ShopBot (I believe PRS standard benchtop) but neither I or the seller have any idea as to how much its worth at this point so as to agree on a fair price. Here are some specifics if anyone can help.

Purchased in 2001. Came with the Makita 2.25 hp router? Is a bench top model but not sure if its the PRS or PRT standard. Has the 24" X 32" Cutting area.

If anyone can give me an idea as to roughly what this should be selling for it will help me immensely.

Thank you in advance!
Mark

I'm NO expert on these machines, but I doubt it is a PRS if it is that old.

Any idea how much its worth? The seller says that it works great and I believe he even sent the control box back to ShopBot to have them go through it and give it a clean bill of health.

Here is a newer one that is still for sale
http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19046

Would you buy a 13 year old computer? Personally, I wouldn't. Everything in that machine is past history. Regardless of the price, I think you'll find it frustrating and difficult to work with.

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Originally Posted by coryatjohn

Would you buy a 13 year old computer? Personally, I wouldn't. Everything in that machine is past history. Regardless of the price, I think you'll find it frustrating and difficult to work with.

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i wouldn't be so quick to dismiss an older machine...they may be a little slower and not look as nice but they get the job done

Benchtops were PRT era. Still a good workable machine especially with a 4g control upgrade so they can run more current software. If it has the original controller I'd want to put less than $1500 in it as you'll probably want to buy Vcarve or Aspire and an updated control box to go with it.

The thing has decade plus aged electronics, motors, switches, bearings and the rest. How much upgrading and replacing is it going to need to be comparable with a newer generation machine?

I understand John's point, but disagree. If you could get it for a $1000 or so, add a 4g control and vcarve pro, you could have a pretty good machine for around $3k - $3500, which is about $2k less than a new desktop and it has a larger usable area. (need to check current cost of 4g or RBK upgrade with shopbot). The motors are probably fine if it hasn't been abused, and bearings, pinions are inexpensively replaced if needed. If you're working with something the size of a desktop or benchtop, speed isn't terribly important, the accuracy with a 4G or RBK is very good, it would make a good starter machine or second machine.

The main disadvantage to using the machine as is would be DOS based control software and the dated CAM software that came with it. For me, Vcarve would be the first priority update, with new control box second.

John,

Keep in mind, Gene started out with one of the oldest models, refutbed it and started his business that way. That PR is still in operation an making him rich along with a newer Chinese CNC.

I'd suggest $750. as a good price as long as it's in good working concdition. Wondering if it had software with it?

Gene's PR is the machine that I started with, and there were at least two owners of that particular machine previous to me. He still produces parts on it that me and my PRS Alpha 6'x12' are envious of!

Exactly, a machine is just another extension of the man.

For me, all that tinkering with a machine I don't know and all the parts out of date doesn't sound like that much of a good time.

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Originally Posted by coryatjohn

For me, all that tinkering with a machine I don't know and all the parts out of date doesn't sound like that much of a good time.

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I had a PR to start out with that I was the 3rd owner of and I didn't have any more trouble then my new PRS. I would go for it if it fits your needs.

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Originally Posted by zeykr

I understand John's point, but disagree. If you could get it for a $1000 or so, add a 4g control and vcarve pro, you could have a pretty good machine for around $3k - $3500, which is about $2k less than a new desktop and it has a larger usable area. (need to check current cost of 4g or RBK upgrade with shopbot). The motors are probably fine if it hasn't been abused, and bearings, pinions are inexpensively replaced if needed. If you're working with something the size of a desktop or benchtop, speed isn't terribly important, the accuracy with a 4G or RBK is very good, it would make a good starter machine or second machine.

The main disadvantage to using the machine as is would be DOS based control software and the dated CAM software that came with it. For me, Vcarve would be the first priority update, with new control box second.

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I'd agree with the $750 to $1000 range if it needs the upgrades to be 4g contol and vacarve pro ready. I'd buy it today at that price, as long as it runs and you don't see any major issues as it moves around the work area.

If he really did send it in to ShopBot give them a call and give them the serial number, they will tell you what you are looking at. Russ

All that tinkering as John puts it in IMHO is how you get to know the machine and when something does go wrong or doesn't sound just right you will know what to look for I bought a 1976 Stetson-Ross gang rip a year ago went thru it with a fine tooth comb and rebuilt it back to brand new condition also had fun doing it that's what connects you to it Working on it so you know what makes it tick I say go for it if the price is right you won't regret it

I kind of agree with John.

This might not be such a good purchase if he doesn't like to wrench. Me I hate repairs. So much so I ended up selling my machine. I admire you fellows who enjoy this kind of work but I'm more like John. If it's not fun, don't do it.

I agree with Joe. If you like tinkering with electronics (as I do) and don't mind tinkering with mechanics (I don't mind, but the mechanics have to be simple), then fixing up a Shopbot will be easy enough; BUT, if you want to buy a tool that is ready to run, just contact Shopbot and order which ever model suits your needs.

Even if the electronics are completely ruined, you can (fairly easily) build or buy a control box that will work with any model Shopbot. I'm fairly certain that Shopbot can sell you a compatible control box. Parts for building a control box from scratch that runs Mach software (which is not compatible with Shopbot's software) costs about $3,000, including motors. Building your own controller that is based on a control microprocessor module that Shopbot sells that WILL run Shopbot software and replacing all the motors will still be in that price range.

The mechanical parts of a Shopbot are not difficult to maintain and repair. Almost anything that needs to be done can be done with the tools that almost everyone has in the garage.

An older model Shopbot, that is properly adjusted and maintained, will do the job as well as a new model IF you know the limitations of the machine and work within those limitations. No matter what anybody tells you, every machine has limitations. As they say, "A poor carpenter blames his tools", which tells me that a wise carpenter knows how to do the job and also knows which tool he should use to do that job and how to use that tool.

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Originally Posted by joe

I kind of agree with John.

This might not be such a good purchase if he doesn't like to wrench. Me I hate repairs. So much so I ended up selling my machine. I admire you fellows who enjoy this kind of work but I'm more like John. If it's not fun, don't do it.

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I don't mind doing repairs. Heck, I'll repair anything and have. I don't know the experience level of the OP with CNC machines. Any CNC machine has a steep learning curve. If the start of this curve is a machine that needs weeks worth of tinkering before it can be used properly (like with a non-Dos computer!), then the fun level drops tremendously. This is my opinion though. Your experience will differ.

Guys,

I started about 3 years ago with a PRT 4 x 4. I upgraded to a PRS 4 x 8 mostly due to wanting to work parts that were larger without needing to index the part, etc. I then found out that I could buy my raw material in 5 x 10', so I upgraded again. That PRT 4x4 was a VERY valid machine. It did very good work and PartWorks was a perfectly operational program- ESPECIALLY FOR A NEWBIE who did not know how to do a lot of fancy stuff ( still don't as far as I am concerned!). I didn't upgrade the first time for speed or for newness. I DID upgrade for some of those features on the second time around... My point being that an older machine may well be suitable for a "learner" machine.

I am not a proponent of any one machine, nor am I dogging it. One has to choose for one's self. If I operated mine 8 hours a day and had a steady stream of work and customers who pay for said work, then a new or new-ish machine with the faster cutting capability is WELL advised ( and IF your budget will handle the expense)... but let's not try to figure all this out and tell the person to "so this" or "Do that"... because we do not know all the points he will use to make his decisions.

Some of the best things I have learned on these machines, I learned because I had to figure out how to do the jobs I agreed to do... THAT is a learning experience. I had to figure out how to deal with a machine that was not functioning properly when I got it ( which many of us have had to do because of poor assembly on our part, or what have you!)...

My recommendation for us: ASK HIM what his parameters are. ASK him what his needs are. Ask him what his budget is. ASK him if he is prepared to gut it out a little bit. How many of us turned the machine on when we got it and had perfect parts in a couple minutes? (Answer: Absolutely NO ONE, except maybe a desktop guy who pulls his out of the box and plugs it in!) We should give him insights as to the things he may need to be concerned about. Give him insights on the advantages of the older machines. And finally, give him room to make a solid decision with no recriminations!

And as a guy who has benefitted from the wisdom of more than a few of you. Thanks for being concerned about the next 'botter. Thanks for being great guys and gals. Let's help him get started and get him working on his projects...

Monty

Well said Monty I agree with everything you said older machines can work just as well as something new:)

Again, Well said Monty. Funny, Taking the Desktop out of the box and carving perfectly within hours was exactly what we wanted--and it did (Well almost) :)

The seller uses "Partworks". I have a benchtop already and use Aspire to run it but I am concerned that the G code that Aspire writes will not work with the older model Shopbot.

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Originally Posted by MogulTx

Guys,

I started about 3 years ago with a PRT 4 x 4. I upgraded to a PRS 4 x 8 mostly due to wanting to work parts that were larger without needing to index the part, etc. I then found out that I could buy my raw material in 5 x 10', so I upgraded again. That PRT 4x4 was a VERY valid machine. It did very good work and PartWorks was a perfectly operational program- ESPECIALLY FOR A NEWBIE who did not know how to do a lot of fancy stuff ( still don't as far as I am concerned!). I didn't upgrade the first time for speed or for newness. I DID upgrade for some of those features on the second time around... My point being that an older machine may well be suitable for a "learner" machine.

I am not a proponent of any one machine, nor am I dogging it. One has to choose for one's self. If I operated mine 8 hours a day and had a steady stream of work and customers who pay for said work, then a new or new-ish machine with the faster cutting capability is WELL advised ( and IF your budget will handle the expense)... but let's not try to figure all this out and tell the person to "so this" or "Do that"... because we do not know all the points he will use to make his decisions.

Some of the best things I have learned on these machines, I learned because I had to figure out how to do the jobs I agreed to do... THAT is a learning experience. I had to figure out how to deal with a machine that was not functioning properly when I got it ( which many of us have had to do because of poor assembly on our part, or what have you!)...

My recommendation for us: ASK HIM what his parameters are. ASK him what his needs are. Ask him what his budget is. ASK him if he is prepared to gut it out a little bit. How many of us turned the machine on when we got it and had perfect parts in a couple minutes? (Answer: Absolutely NO ONE, except maybe a desktop guy who pulls his out of the box and plugs it in!) We should give him insights as to the things he may need to be concerned about. Give him insights on the advantages of the older machines. And finally, give him room to make a solid decision with no recriminations!

And as a guy who has benefitted from the wisdom of more than a few of you. Thanks for being concerned about the next 'botter. Thanks for being great guys and gals. Let's help him get started and get him working on his projects...

Monty

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Monty, that was very well said.! Thank you for your input.

I have some shopbot files that were made for a PR and still run them on my PRS I made files in Aspire to run on my PR that had a dos based control software so yes you will be able to use Aspire for that machine.