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3D printed dust shoe
Here is is... yet another dust shoe design.
I have a PRS 96x48 and I had the Kent dust shoe which was great, but I added an air drill. As many of you have discovered you can't use the Kent shoe no matter which way you turn it if you add an air drill.
Aside from CNC machining, I do a lot of 3D printing and CAD design so I decided to make my own. The way the PRS is setup it's actually really hard to get a direct air hose near the spindle the way everything is packed in there.
The goals I had for this design is that it have a magnetic removable set of brushes for easy bit changes. I also wanted it to be as high as possible so I can still use clamps, and I also wanted to avoid the crushed hose. Here's the result:
https://youtu.be/B8kaQult6EY
Attachment 30928
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Hmm. Interesting. Maybe something like that would work for me. I have an older 4x8 PrtAlpha (?) with a router and a Dewalt drill that the previous owner used for 32 mm cabinets. Can't get a hose in anywhere either. Neat idea.
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Thanks Gundog! I wish they didn't take so long to print or I'd make a few more :)
Jim, I have no idea if this would fit a PRT, I've never seen one in person.
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what percentage area increase did you use when going from 4" round to square.
why did you use 2 90 degree bends instead of a 45 or minimal resistance gentle curve
nice job though
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The cross section of the wide and flat areas have the same surface area as a 4" round circle. This was done to not restrict airflow as much as possible . The reason for the tight bends is to get the duct up and out of the way of the table (and any clamps) as soon as possible. Had I done a gradual angle I would have increased the area that I couldn't use clamps.
It performs great and I have no doubt that a slightly smoother curve would be a little better ... But I can't imagine it would be that much.
I could just print another duct.... :)
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Nice job
How long did it take to print?
Tim
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There's probably about 20 hours of printing there. To make it a functional part I printed it very dense which increases the print time a lot
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Do you have an account on any of the 3d printing repository sites, such as thingiverse.com?
What printer do you have? I have a Makergear M2 and have built an MPCNC as a large format printer and laser engraver.
I haven’t made accessory parts for my SB with it, but the combo of SB and 3d printer makes for cool projects.
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I have a variety of printers. Currently I'm running an Ultimaker 2+ Extended. That's where I did the big yellow parts. I like this printer because on big stuff like this I can swap the nozzle out for a larger one. This means I can put out more material faster. So on these parts I did 2 shells, but I did it with a .08 nozzle. The parts are surprisingly heavy. I've also got a couple of Makerbots and a Dremel 3D40. I did the smaller parts (the blue connectors and the spindle lock ring) on the Makerbot and Dremel. Those have standard .04mm nozzles. Every part was done in PLA.
I posted it up on Thingiverse if you want to check it out
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2686415
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If at the first joint you made it angle up and make the round portion there would that work? That would make the part much shorter and faster to print. You might need to make it an inch or two longer to the first joint then maybe about a 30* angle with the round portion at that point. Just a thought. This suggestion is only if you wanted to make some for sale otherwise the one you made should serve you well as is.
Mike
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Nice job on the foot. 3D printing is great for making tubular products difficult to make any other way. I love being able to make adapters and other little fixins.
It's often hard to quantify dust shoe performance without any means of measuring the results - other than how well it sucks up chips by observation. It would be interesting to know the measured airflow characteristics of each shoe in comparison to one another. That would take a properly set up manometer and vacuum gauge.
Interesting that you show your shoe now - just last week I was complaining to myself about how much the stock foot lacks in terms of convenience and performance (I'd always complained...but getting to the point of doing something about it now :p ). I started designing a new one that takes advantage of the spindle rotation and tangential dust port to gain some cyclonic action, plus eliminating long bristles or at least using very short ones.
I haven't done any airflow testing yet, but I've always been curious about how a dust collector would perform against a decent shopvac (or a few Lighthouse motors). The shopvac has a fraction of airflow, but develops more suction & I think increased air velocity which could be used to help get a cyclone going at the foot. Of course, the issue with shopvacs has always been that their filters clog up so easily - but with a dust deputy or other cyclone in between, it could be a contender. Pulsing the tube with a rotary valve of sorts, can also help because it increases vacuum. This is something big commercial systems do.
I'm no expert on airflow, but it seems to me that 2hp+ 1200 CFM of dust collector should be more effective than it is - and I know for sure part of that is to do with the foot design. My question (redundant - because it could be measured) is, when the dust collector is running, how much vacuum is generated vs airflow? How much airflow is really needed, and in turn, how much suction is needed for effective chip extraction? How much free air needs to be modulated at the inlet to balance CFM and suction & keep the DC from just cavitating & the fringe/bristles from sucking in? These questions are a lot like universal vacuum hold down where you just throw 10-15+ horsepower at it and forget about not having enough...If anything, it piques my curiosity because there is mass inefficiency going on.
I thought it would be interesting to discuss these types of things because I know I'm probably not the only one thinking about them as the machine runs and chips rooster tail out the side of the skirt :mad:
More later when I get my foot done...If it wasn't for these customers, I could work on my own stuff! :cool:
-B
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Would 2 45's be better smoother transition
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It's really smooth the way it is:
Attachment 30932
I don't think I'd gain much (if anything) by doing 45s. I wanted to get the pipes up and out of the way as soon as possible.
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Waiting for my trapped post to show up...
-B
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Booo. I'm interested to see it. You've got your advanced degree in dust foots and vacuum tables don't you? :)
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I love the scientific approach Brady. I've had some of the same anecdotal observations as you... ShopVacs have great suction, but probably not a lot of volume. Perhaps because they are sucking through a smaller opening?
I've detached my 4" air hose from my 1200 CFM dust collector before to use as a floor vac and while it works, it's not as impressive as I thought it would be given the numbers.
I'd love to measure the actual performance of one dust shoe over another... All I can say is that my "seat of the pants" analysis says that this is about 20% better than my Kent shoe, and far better than my ShopBot shoe. To be fair to the ShopBot shoe I think I had always been missing some sort of foam ring in between the foot and the spindle.
Brady, I posted the files above if you want to print this thing out. All you need after the prints are some 1/2" x .125" rare earth machines and a a handful of #4 machine screws with nylock nuts.
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Thanks Eric - The foot you have won't fit either of my machines...plus I have my own design in the works to cover both 2D & 3D type of work. The original PRT foot was stationary. Set it to the top of the material and that's where it stayed (most of the time) - but it was a horrid design. SB redesigned the PRS foot for a few reasons...the first of which was to always keep the spinning bit covered for safety reasons. Worked OK for flat work but for non-clipart 3D stuff it has a tendency to gouge and get tripped up on the edges of material.
I use a little shopvac on the DT and it works fairly well except for when there is heavy cutting along the edges of the spoilboard - a problem with all of the designs. Putting a flat plane plenum in the foot does help in these situations.
I'll post more after I get some time to mess with it...
-B
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Here's a shot of the shoe in action:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZjdPgdPXXxStnEKH3
I switched over to bristles instead of the clear stuff. Even better chip cleanup.
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Eric, Your dust shoe is exactly what I need. I purchased a 5 x 10 Alpha w/ HSD and dual air drills. I was not aware that the dust shoe would not fit until it arrived.
Any idea on how I could get one made? I have no experience with 3D printers. What should something like this cost to have made and where would I go yo get one?
Thanks, Tom
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Eric
I want one! That is a great design.
How about the concept of modifying your existing files and cutting a set of negatives out of something like phenolic resin and then vacu-forming the pieces? Cabinet shops use big vacu form machines to put the finish on doors and such so it should be easy to make a few of these.
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I suppose that would be a great solution if I needed more than one, but so far this one is working just fine :)
@Tom I posted the files on Thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2686415
The files are all ready to print, you'd just need to find someone with a 3D printer and enough time to print them all out. This is a LONG print due to the size.
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Thanks for sharing the files! I think I will contact the local Vocational school. My neighbor says they have a 3D printer. Maybe a decent donation would get one made.
Anything I should know about type and quantity of material?
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I think I found someone to print this for me. Is the spindle ring sized for a HSD 4 hp?
Thanks again
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I'm ashamed to say I've been running my ShopBot without a dust boot for a long time now. It's in it's own room, so the dust is contained that way, though not the best way. I just wear a dust mask, and leave the room when I can and watch it on the monitor. A problem I was having was long strings when cutting with the grain would plug up the tube. The 2.5" x6' tube I had running off the machine rather than 4" at the boot was a design flaw on my part.
I'm in the process of making some upgrades to the machine. Getting rid of the factory PVC bow (PRT96) that holds the wiring, replacing it with a wire chain, adding a 4th axis and finally tackling the dust collection issue. I have a JET dust collector that has worked well, if I can just get the ShopBot end working better. My plan has been to design a boot out of some 1/2 clear acrylic that's been on the shelf for years, but I'm open to anything that will work at this point.
I like the cyclonic idea Brady is talking about. How would you get the cyclonic effect moving? Maybe attach the vacuum tube off to one side of the boot like a turbo housing, something like this?
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Update!
I built this dust shoe to try and get my dust collection working better. I always knew I had a weak dust collector. Well, long story short I ended up going from a 2.5 HP crappy old dust collector to this 5HP Oneida:
When I had this shoe on my old system it worked pretty well. On the new system which is hugely more powerful then my old setup, I was still getting sawdust left behind in my cuts. Less, but still far more than other similar systems that I've seen setup. I knew my dust shoe was the culprit...
I started to realize that with this new dust collector that my current 3D printed design was a bit restrictive. So I set about designing something that was a little more open. I was a bit hesitant at first.. We all know that the crevice tool on a vacuum works really well, and that was my theory with the old dust shoe. This new one I designed with a 6" x 6" suction area. Much larger than the old one.
Attachment 31500
Attachment 31501
Attachment 31502
I thought this was going to be too big, but it ended up working great. The bristles are flexible strip brush from McMaster. I embedded rare earth magnets so I can pull the bristles off. This allows full access for the wrenches during a bit change. I took great care to get the whole assembly as tight to the spindle as possible. Not easy when you have to exit the hose out of the rear because of an air drill.
The end result is that I don't know what sawdust is anymore. Between this monster dust collector and this new shoe, nothing gets left behind. It's pretty fantastic.
I did learn that a shoe can and probably should be tuned to the dust collector you've got. This new design may have been worse on my old system, but is great here. The shoe that worked great on my old system actually restricted my new one.
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Eric
Ironically I just had your original design made by the local high school. I just picked up yesterday and am wondering if you could tell me which brush you purchased from Mcmaster? I also have an Oneida 5hp cyclone. How good or bad did this shoe work with this collector? Hopefully it is at least as good as the shopbot shoe. Thanks for all your work and sharing.
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Honestly, this one didn't work as well with the Oneida. It's too restrictive. If you restrict the air opening in a vacuum you're forcing the same amount air to move through a smaller opening. The only way for that to happen is for the air to move faster. Think of the crevice tool in a vacuum. This dust shoe with my old (weak) dust collector were paired pretty well. It restricted the air just enough that it increased it's velocity and made it pick up more chips. With the new Oneida, it was far too restrictive.
This new design you see above is nearly wide open. This would never have worked on my old shoe but works great with the Oneida.
**This strip brush: https://www.mcmaster.com/#strip-brushes/=1cqkqwm was not the one that I used on the shoe you've got. I used a piece off of a Handibot for that one.
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For now I am going to finish this one and see how it works. But is your new version printed? And are you going to either share or sell them? Everything about this Shopbot has been great, except the dust collection problem with airdrills. Honestly, if I had known the stock boot would not work w/air drills I may have ordered a different arrangement. My drills are Stock Shopbot . I would like to see them supply one that works. Hopefully it is on their list of things to improve! Thanks Again for all your help.
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My drill isn't a stock unit and I still have that problem. As far as I know you're stuck unless you either have a wider machine (5x10) or you mount the drill next to your spindle (on Y) instead of to the left (on X). If you mount it on Y you're not going to be able to drill everywhere on the table.
This new shoe I made actually works awesome. It's far easier and faster to print too. I'll clean up the files and post them soon.
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That sounds great. I did originally think about turning the shopbot unit sideways on my 5 x 10 but that would make me loose some cutting area.
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Yeah, you can't do that on a 4x8 at all... It looks like you can until you realize you'll smack it into the legs.
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https://www.dropbox.com/sh/zt4spy50u...XxG0AbLTa?dl=0
There's the updated STLs for the latest dust shoe (the last one I posted pictures of)
It's only three parts. All of the hardware you used for the other one can transfer to this one, including the magnets. That McMaster strip brush snaps right in too.