Tool changer

[benchmark]

Hi guys

Has anyone installed a RapidChange ATC on their Shopbot

Many thanks

Paulo

[benchmark]

Apparently they are working on a setup for a Shopbot.

Here is an example of how it works

https://youtu.be/LqX6qronUVs?si=yD_DNj-OzfqgvRRb

[Rocco.G]

I'd love to see something better. i have a 6' x 10' bed, and the bar flexes when grabbing a tool in the middle. I've had it drop tools and cause other issues because of the flex so have stopped using it. Since I don't do as much 3D work as I'd like (mostly cutting flat sheets of plastic and aluminum for signs) it hasn't been a great hardship.

[david_beede]

Hi guys

Has anyone installed a RapidChange ATC on their Shopbot

Many thanks

Paulo

I have a 2007 PRS 4x8 Shopbot. I have installed a Rapid Change ATC but I had to change control software to do it. I hope Shopbot does find a way to let people use it on their systems.

The hangup is Shopbot software doesn't allow spindle reversal, which is essential for RC ATC. Maybe they are philosophically opposed to Chinese goods, or contractually committed to Yaskawa, I don't know? The cost difference is hard to grasp. Traditional pneumatic ATCs cost $6 grand thru Shopbot. Which I don't think includes the compressor to handle the pneumatics.

Right now Rapid Change ATC starts at $300 for 6 tool pockets and no extras. $800 gets you 8 pocket with auto dust cover and infrared tool sensor. That is if your system will control speed and rotation. If you use a router you'll need to get a spindle and VFD. I got a Chinese 2.2kw (3hp) & VFD for a little over $300. It's water cooled so I had to research, design and make that. (some are air cooled but louder)

I converted to Centroid Acorn so I could do this, which looked affordable on the surface but is by no means "plug and play" like Shopbot tends to be. It was a heavy lift, even reusing the motors and Gecko drives and power supply.

Centroid & G-code is also like learning a new language after speaking Shopbot for 20 years! Knowing what I know now, I don't think I'd sign up for it again. That's why I'm nudging Shopbot to find a way to accommodate it. I think it really is a game changer. If it spreads as I anticipate, (folks in multiple countries already have them) folks will grow to expect it on an efficient CNC setup. I know it is counterintuitive and everyone (myself included) is sure you can't achieve enough torque to hold the bits with a spindle. Funny thing is, it does work.

I only just got mine installed but the inventor and others have put it through some rigorous testing and it showed well. Jim Neeb Woodworks on Youtube (he's a retired engineer) had 5 reviews of it with a final thumbs up.

I tested my new install and it pickup and dropped 8 bits in 2min. So 15sec per tool change. The touch off adds another 15sec/tool. It touches off every time it picks up a tool and does the math to keep all tool bits at your project z zero. And I don't just intend to apply this with multi tool projects, I'll keep my most used bits in the magazine so even one off projects with a single bit are easier as you just tell the machine which bit to use.
Anyway, that's my experience so far. Sure hope Shopbot seriously looks into making allowances for this break through gizmo.

[david_beede]

One thing most folks learn soon after getting an ATC to work is they need to manage their dust boot. If I had to remove and replace the boot between changes, it wasn't so automatic. ;~) I was able to 3d print a free design for a full featured magnetic dust boot from Corbin Dunn I found on Youtube. It's parametric in Fusion 360 so you can select spindle diameter and dust hose size and it redraws to that. I modified it by adding small rails along the side edges so I could catch it in a dock station. The dock is cobbled together from PVC board I'll probably design and print one.
Also had to write macros to incorporate into the Tool Change command. The boot is split so you can take off half to see the bit action for filming or test runs.
I had to convert to Centroid controller to make this work, as Shopbot isn't able to send a reverse signal to the spindle. I believe other CNC makers who also couldn't do that have worked out an add on relay or some such. Maybe Shopbot will too, affordable ATC is a game changer for small shops.
Here's a 53 sec. video of the drop off, tool change and pickup of the boot on my Shopbot PRS 2007.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/opbRSajyPs1vEyvy8

[ken_rychlik]

The yaskawa is not the limiting factor. They will run backwards as desired. If you used a relay to change the spindle fwd signal from SB and could flip it to spindle ccw with that relay, you would be close. Then program that relay with another shopbot output signal. Your tool change macro would then need to be modified to turn that relay on when you were unloading, or unscrewing the tool.

I use centroid and have not done SB programming for a long time, but I think it is very possible.

[david_beede]

The yaskawa is not the limiting factor. They will run backwards as desired. If you used a relay to change the spindle fwd signal from SB and could flip it to spindle ccw with that relay, you would be close. Then program that relay with another shopbot output signal. Your tool change macro would then need to be modified to turn that relay on when you were unloading, or unscrewing the tool.

I use centroid and have not done SB programming for a long time, but I think it is very possible.

Can the yaskawa run by Shopbot be set to low speeds like 1500 rpm? I asked directly if a relay could be used to change direction, but it didn't seem Shopbot supported that, or I couldn't connect with anyone who knew how. I made it through but it was a heavy lift converting to Centroid. Not at all plug and play.

[ken_rychlik]

Can the yaskawa run by Shopbot be set to low speeds like 1500 rpm? I asked directly if a relay could be used to change direction, but it didn't seem Shopbot supported that, or I couldn't connect with anyone who knew how. I made it through but it was a heavy lift converting to Centroid. Not at all plug and play.

I don't use the shopbot speed controller, but a normal spindle is not designed to run at that low of rpm. Maybe that's what is needed for your changer. The Yaskawa can do it. Shopbot tech support might can help on knowing if it will run that rpm.

By the way, Yaskawa tech support is the best I have every worked with. They are top notch and very responsive. Just a 800 phone call away.

I have 4 machines in the shop but none are shopbot at the moment.