Safety !!

[flyboy]

How bout a thread on safety issues. Particuarly things you have learned from. For example, I learned while demonstating my shopbot to a prospective shopbotter that you can't always trust the dxf conversion to cut the inside of a part file first and then the outside - the thing caught on the router at 20K rpm and went flying! Wheew!
My latest concern is that the MDF dust I'm creating is both hazardous and possibly flamable. Dust explosion thing. I dunno. Has anybody had a problem with that. I'm not paranoid by the way, I just work for a very safety consious company (Intel) and like to take the attitide home with me. Any Ideas and experiences would be appreciated. I know at least half of us are brand new it seems and could use the advice of the oldtimers.

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

If you look at safety regulations they are normally written 'after the fact'. 'Guard Rails' on scaffolding and safety lines attached with specifications occurred AFTER many were killed or maimed. This is simply evolution. An 'open' router bit spinning at 20-30K can create a lot of mischief. Do you have to be told to make sure it is tight? Do you need a sign that states 'do not use router to stir coffee in paper cup'. With your own machine, you are now boss, management and safety engineer. This means you are the one required to think.

Ron Brown - wdyasq@yahoo.com

If Stupidity got us into this mess,
then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

[Mayo]

Hey Ron - what a cool idea for the shopbot... coffee stirring! I take mine black though, so no stirring required.

Regarding safety and what I have learned from using the ShopBot:

Your machine will let you know if your material is not securely held down to the table top, even if you assume it IS. In two instances I had during the first few times using the machine, cut parts lifted and got wedged in between the table top and where the bit wanted to go next. The bit created enough friction on the parts to start them smouldering. Had I not been in the same room while cutting, I would never have noticed this and a fire could have resulted.

Part of the contributing factor to my parts lifting was the vacuum dust pick-up combined with the erroneous thought that a down-spiral bit would not allow the parts to lift. And the only method I had been using for material hold down at that time, was a shopvac set-up. I learned just how fast it lost holding power once parts were cut from a full size sheet of masonite.

From this I have adopted the following routines/practices...

I make sure my cut parts will not move, either by using screws or double sided carpet tape, or by screwing hold down brackets to the table top.

I always stay in the same room as the ShopBot while cutting, unless I am not cutting all the way through the material and there is no chance of parts lifting.

If I'm not cutting all the way through the material, I always stay within hearing range while cutting to make sure nothing weird is happening.

I wear hearing protectors when the router is on. I wear a cartridge type dust mask when cutting materials that spew dust even with the dust pick-up turned on. Yes, I have cut slate and a concrete/clay based house siding!

Never place your face parallel with the spinning router bit to watch it cutting. I know it sounds obvious, but who here hasn't been tempted to get that close up view? Can you say SHRAPNEL?

Never try and dislodge a spinning part that's still stuck on the router bit. Yeah it's another obvious thing but when you panic, sometimes you don't use common sense. No, I haven't actually done it.

Never manually hold down parts by placing your hand or arm in between the Y carriage and the X rails when the Y carriage is closing the gap your arm or hand is occupying. Another DUH! but again, if you're not thinking and you're watching the cutting instead of where the tool is moving, I imagine you can wind up quite sore. I've always managed to remove my arm before it's too late!

If you see the router bit glowing RED HOT, it's time to do something QUICK. I have used a squirt bottle/atomizer as a makeshift lubricating and cooling system.

I'm sure more will follow.

[swimsNOSPAM@mindspring.com]

I'm not a coffee drinker, so maybe you guys could help me out. What would the ideal feed and radius be for stirring coffee? Offhand I'd guess that the average radius of a styrofoam coffee cup would be about an inch and a quarter (I'll actually measure the first one I see), but the speed of stirring I have no clue about. (Note: I do not have an infinitely variable spindle, so the feed rate will have to accomplish the 'stirring'. Those of you with variac setups and/or other spindles capable of sub sonic speeds will have to just keep your suggestions to yourselves. Oh, never mind, I'm just ticked off that I don't have the equipment you have. Suggest away. Just try not to get all uppity about it.) Also, does a coffee with sugar and cream need more stirs (or even at a different speed?) than a coffee with only sugar? What about sweet-and-low? If the stirring is totally automated, would the coffee experience be compromised in any way? If so, would the market value of the coffee be affected?

I think it's time for some in-depth experimentation.

Science! Science! Sciencesciencescience!

[Teresa Holtz]

Mr. Brown, why do you respond to people with the sarcasim? You turn this potential ShopBotter off. I don't know wether your joking or serious. I'm a teacher and I tell my kids the only dumb question is the one that is not asked. Every person should be responded with dignity. Safety is very important and should not be joked around with IMO.

[flyboy]

I don't even drink coffee.
I think this an important thread though and should have had it's own topic header a long time ago. Yep, I'm a safety nut. I preach it, I live it I think it's important. Thanks for the input and keep it coming. Mabey we should make sure we are not corrupting minds of youths as well? Never know who is reading and we don't want to give the wrong impression. Thanks for the input. Can we get a topic header under safety? I vote for it. Can I get a second ?..... who's in charge anyway?

[Wdyasq@yahoo.com]

Ms. Holtz,

This is reality, no one is here to hold your hand and tell you everything is "OK". If one makes a mistake or 'forgets', the result can be more than serious. One is always responsible for their own safety. Safety rules are only a guide-line.

Sarcasm can be a far better tool than reality. If you would like, I can go there in the personal mode. I don't care to relive some of those experiences.

There are no dumb questions. Still, one needs to understand these are tools that can be instruments of death and destruction. To ignore this fact is to invite problems. There is no way to make tools completely safe. The more understanding one has of the power and destructive powers a tool may have, the safer one may be with the ability to control that tool.

It is a fact many of us work alone with our tools. We will not have the luxury of a supervisor or foreman to tell our family the news of our 'industrial problem', if we have one. We must think and react without government controls or any kind of supervision. The evolution I spoke of will probably not be reported in published ShopBot literature.

I hope you will tell your "students" they are responsible for their own destiny. They do not need to be a ward of nannies.


Ron Brown - wdyasq@yahoo.com

If Stupidity got us into this mess,
then why can't it get us out? - Will Rogers

[swimsNOSPAM@mindspring.com]

The number one biggest safety issue would have to be securely holding down whatever material is on the table to be cut (or stirred).


Now with this coffee project, I'll also have to be a bit concerned about the temperature of the coffee. If it spills, it could be a serious burn hazard.

[steeve]

I don't know about you guys, but I think the ShopBot is the safest tool in my shop. I hurt myself pretty bad on a tablesaw one time. Coulda done it just as well on a bandsaw. I just about shudder everytime I think of what my jointer could do to one of my hands. How about injury possibilities on a planer, or even a stationary belt sander? I could go on and on.

One of the things I have come to really like about my ShopBot is that it IS safer than the Old Way I used to make a lot of my parts. For example, how am I going to get hurt when the SB is dilligently producing parts downstairs, and I am drinking coffe upstairs! Oh darn, it all keeps coming back to coffee. Most likely I was drinking too much coffee that day I got wrapped up in my tablesaw....

As I see it, all of you are correct. Sure, it is possible to hurt yourself on a machine like this (but I think you'd have to be Almost Stupid to do it). On the other hand, this type of product seems to attract people that are maybe a bit more renegade than most folks. You know, people that don't like to be told what to do. Even people like that want to go home at the end of the day with all of their fingers. That'll keep them safe enough, I figure.

Steve

[gerald_d]

For mixing cake dough, a spiral down bit is best


Seriously though, I support Tom's proposal for a safety thread. However, there could be some legal issues if the "Official ShopBot Forum" gave out bad safety info under the ShopBot Company banner. Maybe the way to approach this is for SB'ers to tell of their experiences and how they personally are going to stop dangerous events from happening again. There should be a disclaimer saying that all advice given on the Forum is at your own risk, unless it is a ShopBot employee giving the advice.

Remember that most of the dangerous things like routers, clamps, dust extractors are not supplied by ShopBot and therefore the onus is on each individual for his/her own safety.